Question about HL M1A2, barrel recoil and track jolt

[BarryC]

Hi guys, Newbie here!

I have been reading many different posts on the recoil and track jolt question. I have to admit that I am somewhat confused.

I would like to have true barrel recoil. My M1 has the BB system which I have no interest in keeping. Is there a true recoil unit/system available for the HL Abrams?
I want to eliminate the track jolt. I read one post about being able to fire while moving and that type of operation interest me.
I do not intend on "fighting" the tank but want it to operate as realistically as possible including better sound and lighting (brake and controllable head lights).

Is an upgraded receiver controller the right answer; which one?

Thanks in advance!
Barry

[MichaelC]

Barry, your reasoning are why most of us have upgraded from the stock factory electronics. There are a number of options and it has been covered in the forum many times over. It all depends on your budget and knowledge, as well as perhaps if you already have some existing hobby grade radio equipment.

Looking at your wiring for the M1, I reckon that you know what you are doing which means that you would be open to all the options. In all cases, you will have the option to use servo recoil, and most of us are used to DIY but there are now some packaged solution that you can purchase which would make the process much easier.

I myself is a Clark board user, and Clark has now produce this "universal" recoil which is based on the Heng Long fitting so would be an easy upgrade.

11182207_10153580557509788_1928177492150688360_n.jpg (91.8 KiB) Viewed 4833 times

There are other users here as well on IBU2, Elmod, Tamiya and ASP, so once you decide on a board there will be someone who will be able to help you with regards to installation etc.

MichaelC.

[BarryC]

Once again Michael, Thank you for helping me out.

I have been in aviation electronics (avionics) for over 40 years and I am confident I can handle the electrical installation as well as the mechanical aspects.

Though I was once into RC aircraft it has been nearly 40 years ago. I am up to speed on RC control but was never into it far enough into for multi control beyond the basic aircraft function
Unfortunately I not longer have any of the RC equipment so other than the set that came with the HL Abrams, I will be starting from there., rudder, elevator, rudder and throttle.

In considering the Clark TK-22 Control Board with that I will also need a stand along receiver; correct? I am assuming I can obtain one that is compatible with the HL Xmitter; yes?
I have found a source for both it as well as the recoil unit here in the US (RC Tanks of OKC) for $135.00 for both. Unfortunately they do not have a receiver without purchasing a xmitter/receiver set. They do sell an RX18 with a receiver for $25.00 an I am assuming it is compatible with the HL xmitter I have; would you know?

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me!

Cheers,
Barry

[MichaelC]

Barry,

OKC I believe is the US distributor for Clark so that would be a good place to buy from. I have not purchase from them before, as the Canadian supplier is no longer in business and our local club which is mostly Clark (Other than Tamiyas) has been buying bulk directly from Clark. I just got a quote from Clark for the recoil for $25USD so it looks like OKC is quite reasonable as a re-seller. Their Clark board prices also seem reasonable as well.

Whether it is Clark or other boards, you will not be using the Heng Long transmitter unfortunately. You will have to get a hobby grade 4 channel (minimum) radio and a matching receiver to fully control the board. Heng Long transmitter will only work with RX-18. Basically you will be replacing all the electronics when you upgrade to a Clark or other after market boards. By doing so you will be able to get servo recoil, proportional control on all motor functions (i.e. rotation, elevation, movement etc), as well as lighting options and more importantly the matching sound set.

There are however options with RX-18 that will also provide you with barrel recoil and eliminate the "hull recoil". Taigen recoil unit will work with RX-18s and its variance but it is notoriously difficult to install unless it is factory fitted. RCTA produces a simple relay board that will eliminate the hull recoil by syncing the relay with the flash of the barrel, killing the power to the motors so that the hull recoil signal does not trigger the motors to do its crazy bit when firing.

Given that you have a modern tank, my recommendation is that you go the more complete route, replacing all electronics with an after market board like Clark, since not only will you have the benefit of the aforementioned features of the after market board, but you will also have additional servo ports from the receiver to do some of the things that a modern tank is capable of doing like fast elevation and rotation (with servos replacing the Heng Long motors/gears), fire on the run etc.

Lastly, if you are in the market for a radio/receiver set I would also recommend RCTA as well as they sell a Turnigy 9XR Pro that has the Er9X firmware installed with a fully backlit LCD screen. The Er9X firmware is more "tank friendly" and replaces all the Heli terms on the radio. It works beautifully with the Clark board.

Edit: Just noticed that OKC also carry Spektrum radio and receiver which will work with Clark, and also some of the RCTA product like the ATRC so I think they can be your one stop shop !

MichaelC.

[BarryC]

Michael,

Excellent explanation! I like the idea of "one stop shopping" but I am going to look into the radio set you recommended.

Reading on the Clark site I see where they list "barrel elevation" but when selected it went to the barrel recoil unit and I could not see anywhere it described the elevation installation.

An RCTA ATRC will be needed as well to provide "shoot on the move" capability?

You have just about got this "newbie" up to speed!!
Thanks,
Barry

[MichaelC]

An RCTA ATRC will be needed as well to provide "shoot on the move" capability?

Barry, actually ATRC will only stop the track recoil and not let you fire on the run since the relay cuts ALL power to the drive motors. Clark and other after market boards will allow you to fire on the run and adjustment to how much hull/track recoil you would like if at all. I always wanted a little track recoil to simulate the gun firing just not the earth shattering from Heng Long........

Clark site is really really confusing. He does not have an elevation kit yet, although the universal recoil kit is based on the Heng Long fitting so you can always keep the Heng Long elevation pinion, take out the Heng Long elevation unit and springs and put in your own servo for elevation, or use Clark's to control it (The Clark board servo elevation control is quite limited in range. I always just ended up hooking up the elevation servo directly to the radio and set it up thru the mixer).

Here is a quick video what you can do with servo elevation and rotation for moderns:



This is the servo recoil with Clark and a Heng Long Leo which would be very similar to the M1.



MichaelC.

[BarryC]

Hi Michael,

Just read up on the Turnigy 9XR Pro on the RCTA site. WOW has radio control evolved since my last involvement! There are more terms and acronyms that a modern corporate jet.
The radio set sounds like the cat's meow; is there anything it can not be programmed to do; (rhetorical) question.

So if I have gathered all this correctly, to do what I want I will need:

A quality 5 channel or better xmitter/receiver set, control board like the TK22 or other of equal function, Barrel Recoil unit like the Clark unit.
An ATRC....but I think I understand the TK22 will accomplish that.
A servo to control elevation and then "engineer" the installation....I have viewed one somewhere here....does not look too daunting. Am I on the right "track"?

What do I need to give me realistic turret rotation?

Thanks again,
Barry

[atcttge]

Watching some modern tanks doing gunnery from static positions, the whole tank shakes when the gun is fired. Not as violent as the standard HL recoil though, more like the suspension is soaking up the recoil so the tank's rear dips a bit. Alas, this movement seems to be difficult to simulate, the "best" so far is having the tank reverse a tiny distance by adjusting the recoil values in some boards (e.g., IBU). It isn't perfect though. I'm still trying to figure out how to make the rear dip instead of the whole tank reversing when the gun fires. That would be far more realistic than current fixes.

Firing on the move is possible with the IBU2. I've been running my M1 and firing the main gun and there's no problem. It doesn't even reverse when the tank is in motion.

As for realistic turret rotation, your best bet is using a 360-degree servo. Try looking up for the turret traverse speeds of real tanks and using the appropriate servo for it. In my M1's case, the turret traverse speed of the real thing is around 9 seconds. The servo I used gives me close to that. With some boards, turret traverse servo speed can be adjusted in the config file of the board (like the IBU2 Pro).

[BarryC]

Thank you for your input Atcttge. I am still feeling my way through, if possible I want to avoid purchasing something that will prove less than what I want then having to purchase something else.

Having watched a lot of video of M1's firing I completely agree with you on how the "whole" tank reacts to the main gun firing, it is more of a dip as you state.

In following up on Michael's thoughts on the Turnigy R/T set I read the following statement at the bottom of the discription of the set on the RCTA site.
As most of you would all know the above is great and all but it doesn't come ready to go as there is no radio module. To take the guesswork out of the equation we have teamed up the 9XR with the new Turnigy DSSS radio module. This module will allow you to use your existing Turnigy 9X8Cv2 and Hobby King HK-T6A receivers.

What is the purpose of the "Turnigy DSSS Radio Module; is it necessary?

Thanks,
Barry

[MichaelC]

Barry,

You might have come across this thread already but it will give you some ideas on modding servo elevation and servo rotation:

viewtopic.php?f=195&t=17964&p=154767&hi ... on#p154767

As to the Turnigy radio, the module is basically the transmitter part of the radio so you will need it. You can switch the modules also but using the same radio. The DSSS modules allows the 9XR PRO to work with the old 9X 8 channel receivers as listed there. 9XRPRO will also work with the newer module like the Frsky XJT which has additional functionalities like 16 channel capability, Smart port, telemetry, model matching etc etc which is way more technology than you would need for tanks.

I have two 9XRPro radio, one Frsky XJT module (which I am selling since I find I don't need all the capabilities) and two DSSS modules, one for each of the radio. I was switching between the XJT and the DSSS module on one of the radio.