TAMIYA M1A2 Displaymodel

This board is for talk about tanks after WW2. The ups and downs. The ins and outs. All of it here.

Postby kintaroukinji » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:38 pm

tankme wrote:I think they fold it down whenever the tank it being transported by rail, air, or ship just so it doesn't hit anything. They also fold down the wind sensor. Both lower the overall height of the tank. I know I've seen pics of a Navy landing ships that had a really low cargo hold ceiling. They fold it down or it won't clear the ceiling. Here is a shot of it folded, but this looks like it might be the newer PROTECTOR low profile CROWs. Once it's folded down it rests on two rubber blocks. Second pic is of the original one folded.
original.jpg

4f63edb82c7007197c1608f1caf59f85.jpg


Thank you very much for your valuable photos. I was looking for a such picture. I thought that the overall height would not change so much when CROWS was folded sideways. I found that the CROWS became compact when the machine gun was removed, turned 90 degrees from the front and folded to the side.

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Postby Eastern Front » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:16 pm

tankme wrote:
tomhugill wrote:
tankme wrote:Since I already owned the HL Abrams from years ago and seeing the soft or wrong Tamiya details I decided to detail the HL out and not buy the Tamiya version. For what it costs you would think that they would've done better with the details.


What's wrong with the tamiya?


I would agree that the Tamiya 1/16 offering was molded from the Tamiya 1/35 offering. The problem with that is that the old Tamiya 1/35 offering is highly regarded as one of the worst M1A2 Abrams models on the market. Academy, Meng, and Dragon all make better, more accurate Abrams models that have been released before this kit. I have over a dozen books of reference on the M1, M1A1 and M1A2. I also own the Academy and Dragon 1/35 kits. I previously owned the 1/35 Tamiya M1 kit. I do think Tamiya did a wonderful job engineering the R/C aspects of the kit.

Things wrong or I don't like - no troop phone on rear, no NATO charging port on rear, upper rear lifting handles are round and solid (they should be square profile and hollow in the middle), solid squares on the front near the fenders (should be hollow), handle molded solid on loader's hatches, smoke dischargers are poorly modeled, ammo can holders on the front of the turret storage racks are missing, all of the filler caps are molded with soft details, all of the storage bin handles are molded badly on turret and hull, missing mine plow connection on the front of the tank, missing driver's hatch stop, wrong version of blow off hatches are in the kit for an A2, missing details on loaders hatch, missing GPS antenna, missing Blue Force Tracking system, missing all the upper bolt detail for the track skirts, fender retaining springs are molded in to the top of the fender but not along the side of the fender, one of the long engine covers is missing the grill and not sloped correctly, mounting holes for the counter sniper machine gun are missing on the two outer tabs on the mantlet, handles missing on the CIP panels, mud holes missing from sprockets, tow cable mounting hooks are molded onto the cable and not on the tank itself...

Those are just things I can see from pics I've seen on the internet. Overall the entire rear section of the tank is setup like an A1 model. An A1 model would have the generator on the left rear (with filler cover). The A2 should have a battery box back there with 3 distinct panels and no filler port. Even for an A1 the exhaust port is missing. I personally would convert the plastic footloops to actual cable and make real rubber type mud guards on the fenders. I can forgive them using the older turret bustle based compressor unit and not the new VCU (Vapor Compression Unit) since there was a transition period, but they put the new VCU on their Tusk2 1/35 kit in 2013. So why didn't they include it on this model? I can also forgive the missing DUKE system and the missing 3rd antenna mount behind the right storage box.

So with all of my research on the Abrams that's what I feel they did poorly. I'm sure if I had my hands on the actual kit I could find more things to fix.


IMHO those really are minor details. I would also point out that not all of the tanks had some of those things on them (Like the mine plow mount) the tanks would get changes (modifications) when it was sent back to the depot for a "refit" and that was usually after an extensive service --upwards of 10 years.
The exception to this rule was if there was a major change, like a safety or survivability change. As you can imagine there usually wasn't enough supply to go around, like a plow. Usually a Battalion would designate a single tank to that mission and the rest would be strictly a MBT role.

Either way, you can celebrate a real nice model that you will have to do subtle things to, or you can get get a lower quality version and do alot to! The HL is cheaper, sure, but you will make those changes too and then have to deal with those crumby gearboxes, a crappy control board with awful sound and a horrible plastic that is different than the styrene.

Yes HL tanks do use a different plastic, styrene will not just "fuse" with it, you will have to use Plastruct liquid adhesive. If your using super glue or modeling cement your doing it wrong anyway and your parts will fall off. Tamiya tanks take styrene real well---because they are!

The Tamiyas have great gearboxes, handle metal tracks just fine, the gearboxes do not whine so loud when you run them that you would have to increase your sound to drone them out. The controllers are real good as are the speakers--real good! Now if your looking to add more functions then the controllers fall short. But then its a tank, I don't need to play marching bands, tank commanders shouting or reloading noises-- you would never hear those things standing by a real tank!

Look, there is no tank---NO TANK I know of that hits the shelf perfect, that matches a blue print released from a war dept. you can only get so much detail out of a production line too. Tamiya goes out and send their engineers to crawl over a tank, to measure, photograph and record. They did not get it wrong, they never do, they just modeled a single tank, it was probably a tank that was on display somewhere, that had been declassified for the public and it was that tank they were allowed to crawl over, not one that was fresh out of the depot.

It is no secret that I do not care for the HL tank, its not the tank itself as much as its what is under the hood that bothers me. Alot of guys here have modeled a HL tank with results that purely amazes me, set it next to a tamiya and you would never know... But I hate their gear boxes, the controller and the type of plastic they use. I have a HL--Yes I do, but only one and with alot of upgrades too!

So celebrate a good model, I celebrate any tank that comes out--even HL. I will not fuss over minor stuff, that is why I am in the hobby, to take a canvas and paint! Customization is what we do, that is als why a tank comes out in a basic shape.

Cheers!
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Postby BarryC » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:03 am

Hi guys,

Without starting a battle I would like to throw my "2 cents" into this discussion.

While researching my M1A1HA build I have acquired a dozen or so publications mostly geared to providing modelers with data and photos. So between them and a hundred or so photos from online sources mainly Prime Portal I have looked at nearly 400 photos. These include all versions on the A1 and A2 as well as all SEP versions. I have spent close to a hundred or more hours studying and think I can say conclusively that making hard statements about a specific version is like saying all leopards have the same spot pattern! I have been modeling one of two specific M1A1 HA with TUSK 1 protection package and I had to chose one or the other due to variations between the two. Both served together but have slightly different configurations.

I also have in my possession three different 1/35 kits of what is billed the same versions, but yet they are different. I have three different 1/16 kits, Heng Long M1A2, Tamiya M1A2 "static kit" and the Trumpeter M1A1. The level of detail and molding of the upper hull and turret are a lot a like. There are some odd differences in what is and is not included. IMO the level of detail for 1/16 scale is underwhelming on all.

The three are very different basically in how they are engineered because they are directed at a specific market.
Heng Long is targeted at the RTR market while the Tamiya is targeted at those wanting top shelf engineering and willing to build and the Trumpeter kit is a Static model pure and simple.

I can say that had the Tamiya kit been available when I started I would have chosen it for the engineering and the molding in styrene plastic. :clap: It would have still needed the detail work but I would have saved hours and hours making the chassis acceptable. I think when I tally up the dollars I've spent on structural rework, metal upgrades and electronics it will come close to the cost of the Tamiya FO kit.

I have learned to HATE the HL plastic, it is crap to work with but for its' targeted market it is solid. I have spent close to 100 hours bringing the HL chassis and drive train up to acceptable quality. The Tamiya starts out that way and I have considered using the Tamiya chassis under my HL hull and may do so at some point.

Just My Two Cents Worth,
Barry
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Postby tankme » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:31 am

Not talking about the mine plow mount that goes on the nose. I was talking about the mine plow electrical connection box by the driver's hatch, but that is neither here nor there. The tanks do get mods throughout their life cycle and through refits. I agree with that also. I have owned the HL for years before Tamiya even announced their version so I built what I had already bought. I was aware of what I was getting with the HL. I have built my own tanks from scratch so upgrading something is not out of my wheelhouse. The gearboxes have been upgraded, the control board has been replaced, and I don't find the plastic as bad as you are alluding to, but to each his own. I have used Tamiya Thin solvent for most of my build and superglue for any metal parts. Can't use solvent for the metal parts. The problem is that if you want it to "fuse" to the HL you need to sand the paint off first. The paint will cause the solvent problems with adhesion.

Not being argumentative, but Tamiya does get it wrong sometimes. Their first releases of the Abrams in 1/35th scale actually had issues with barrel scale (too short). The turret and front glacis plate where also at the wrong angle. There were other issues with it also, but this post isn't about the 1/35 Tamiya release. I have a Tamiya 1/16 KV-2 kit I'm building. It's a very nice kit, but the KV-2 is a pretty basic tank. It's not hard to get it pretty close. I have had to make additions to that tank to ensure I don't have issues running it. And you do need to use superglue on Tamiya tanks sometimes. The track fender supports on the Tamiya are ABS plastic being bonded to styrene. Tamiya solvent won't work for that. I tried using Plastruct to get them to "fuse" and they wouldn't. I have two different types of Plastruct and neither worked. I guess to me the Tamiya tanks are supposed to be made for enthusiasts and I expect enthusiast level of detail for that kind of money. HL are basically toys, but can be made up to an enthusiast level. You are right that none of them are perfect. I will have a lot of money invested in my HL Abrams, but I don't plan on selling my Abrams. I know the whole debate about resale also. Tom asked what I thought was wrong with the Tamiya so I posted what I think is wrong with it. You may or may not think those things are important, but to me I was unwilling to abandon the work I've done on my HL in favor of another Abrams with some of the same issues my HL already had. Call me a rivet counter if you like, but I just wanted an Abrams built to a high level of detail for my own enjoyment. If everyone else enjoys it than all the better.

I'm just exchanging thoughts and ideas so no offense intended or felt by me. Good luck in your builds!

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Postby kintaroukinji » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi everyone.
I have made many 1/35 and 1/16 scale tank models. I understand that there are many versions for most tanks. When making a tank model as a hobby, it is free for anyone to make a model with any preference, and I have no intention to deny it. As far as my preference is concerned, I do not want to make a tank model that corresponds to a version that has never existed before, unless I make a tank model of SF, fiction and animation. For example, there were early, middle, and late versions even in Tiger II, but I often saw the Tiger II model that did not exist in the past as a result of mixing these version parts incorrectly . Mania who do not want to make such a model needs to collect information and materials of a real tank. This is also a pleasure for him as a hobby. This preference is closely related to the details of the model, but it is different from how much detail is expressed in the model. As long as the modeler does not scratch the model completely, it has no choice but to consider the price and choose the model of the manufacturer that was the most suitable for his taste at that time.

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Postby Eastern Front » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:17 pm

"The track fender supports on the Tamiya are ABS plastic being bonded to styrene."

Is this solely on the KV2? That is really weird as Tamiya has always stuck with a styrene plastic.. I don't have a KV2, never cared much for Russian armor though I would be happy dropping down some coin on a IS-3!

ABS can be bonded to the styrene easily by using nail polish remover (Acetone) on the parts surface that will attach to the hull, put a drop on it and wait a few seconds for the abs part to absorb the acetone, when you see the drop of acetone almost evaporate put another drop on and attach to the hull---Bonded!
I have a few ABS models and that is the glue I use (Acetone)

I have no problem "fusing" metal in the styrene, there is a technique for it for sure. The solid "white metal" parts are a little more challenging though, I usually drill through the hull and attach the part from the backside with a fine screw. I also still use Tennax liquid around he part as this will dissolve a little of the styrene around the part causing it to fill the little gap between the part and the hull, almost looks like a weld.

Although we have to fix the models, to make them more realistic remember why they mold tools etc. into a hull vice making them separate, its faster to produce, smaller parts could fall off on an RC vehicle and it helps with the modeler to assemble. I agree we all like to get the finer details, I always cut off molded in items and replace with accurate versions, its just what we do :-) Some people just want something to put together simply and run the tank, not everyone has our tools and abilities to make an awesome work of art!

Cheers!
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Postby Eastern Front » Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:22 pm

"The three are very different basically in how they are engineered because they are directed at a specific market.
Heng Long is targeted at the RTR market while the Tamiya is targeted at those wanting top shelf engineering and willing to build and the Trumpeter kit is a Static model pure and simple."

Couldn't agree more Barry...

BTW, thank gosh we are not into ships, imagine a specific class of Battleship (Like the Iowa class) even though 4 of them made it out of the shipyards to serve the US fleet, they were the same class, same hull and superstructure, but were all different in subtle ways

Cheers!
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Postby kintaroukinji » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:26 am

It is well known that we can not hear band marches, commander voices and discharge sound of gun cartridge when we are by the tank during the actual operation. However, some enthusiasts also install the function to reproduce these sounds in order to enjoy their atmosphere and scene. Some enthusiasts think that such a function is unnecessary for tank models.
After all, it is a natural story, but the model and the controller to choose differ depending on what function mania emphasizes. I think that the discussion of which is good or which is bad should be greatly argued on the premise of thinking that it is the person's preference or importance. For those who do not match his tastes or important points, the claim can not be agreed.

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Postby Rad_Schuhart » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:36 am

Hi, I am one of those who love to play marches, tank commander voices, and all kind of sounds. In one of my tanks I play up to 220 sounds and I love all of them.

Unrealistic for some people? Yeah, maybe, but I absolutelly love it. People in meetings loves it too, and you can absolutelly see the public preffers those tanks able to make more things.

For example sometimes I do convoys, and the tank that is in front keeps shouting instructions to the rest like Turn right! turn left!, attack!, slowly, faster! enemy spotted! and things like that. (limit is your imagination) so it is pretty cool to have a platoon commander giving the instructions to the rest at my will. In real life you`d heard that too.

If that is not enough, horns, radio chatter, ambient sounds, artillery strikes... That is a BIG part of the fun for me. As I said, some people dont like it, but for me it is an absolute must. A need. In fact a tank without tons of functions is boring for me and stays in the shelf. (Sorry, I dont prettend to offend anybody, but is like that for me).

And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.
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Postby kintaroukinji » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:16 am

Rad_Schuhart wrote:Hi, I am one of those who love to play marches, tank commander voices, and all kind of sounds. In one of my tanks I play up to 220 sounds and I love all of them.

Unrealistic for some people? Yeah, maybe, but I absolutelly love it. People in meetings loves it too, and you can absolutelly see the public preffers those tanks able to make more things.

For example sometimes I do convoys, and the tank that is in front keeps shouting instructions to the rest like Turn right! turn left!, attack!, slowly, faster! enemy spotted! and things like that. (limit is your imagination) so it is pretty cool to have a platoon commander giving the instructions to the rest at my will. In real life you`d heard that too.

If that is not enough, horns, radio chatter, ambient sounds, artillery strikes... That is a BIG part of the fun for me. As I said, some people dont like it, but for me it is an absolute must. A need. In fact a tank without tons of functions is boring for me and stays in the shelf. (Sorry, I dont prettend to offend anybody, but is like that for me).

And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.


I also enjoy various sounds around the tank with the RC tank model. I think that it would be best in terms of performance to assemble the RC tank kit according to the manufacturer's instructions, but it is difficult for me to add more functions if I am not satisfied with the sound and other functions. In that case, I have no choice but to use a third party controller without using the manufacturer's default controller. I use the RC kit display model or the inexpensive HL model for tank hull to modify. Of course I also enjoy detailing up and painting at the same time.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Sat May 04, 2019 5:03 am

I made a 1/16 scale CROWS M1A2 mount base referring to 3D images and 1/35 scale photographs of DragonModel. The material is 2mm t and 1mm t plastic plate. As for the spring in the hinge, it would have been better if I had a spring of a beautiful shape that matched this size, but I did not have it, so I wound the brass wire around the rod to make the spring.
Attachments
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Postby yan33 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:04 am

excellent :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Postby kintaroukinji » Sat May 04, 2019 11:14 am

Thank you.

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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sat May 04, 2019 1:28 pm

Superb work. :thumbup:
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Sat May 04, 2019 2:32 pm

That looks fantastic :clap: :clap:
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Postby Eastern Front » Sat May 04, 2019 4:56 pm

Rad_Schuhart wrote:
And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.


I have built three of these so far, I can say the road wheels and return rollers are a Styrene type of plastic. I only say this because the glue I use does not work on ABS, its for Styrene and I use it when assembling my wheels, and it works on them. If they were ABS they would not bond at all.

Cheers!
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Postby Rad_Schuhart » Sat May 04, 2019 6:12 pm

Eastern Front wrote:
Rad_Schuhart wrote:
And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.


I have built three of these so far, I can say the road wheels and return rollers are a Styrene type of plastic. I only say this because the glue I use does not work on ABS, its for Styrene and I use it when assembling my wheels, and it works on them. If they were ABS they would not bond at all.

Cheers!


That is not corret.

The road wheels and return rollers are indeed ABS. The color in the sprues is a bit different to the other sprues. When you take the parts away from the sprue, you can notice the plastic is way way harder than the rest of the parts styrene. I have read you should also Tamiya ABS glue for it (as I did and worked) And I thing the sprue also says ABS.

Nothing wront there. Even better, if the return rollers were styrene they would wear way faster than if they were ABS.

Some more info here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tank ... tions.html

Take a look at all tamiya manuals and builds, I think the Leopard also comes with ABS parts.
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Postby mutt71 » Sun May 05, 2019 2:53 am

I really enjoy the work that everyone does on this board. I also respect everyone's opinion, likes and dislikes, etc. To each their own and Carpe Diem! Just MHO.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Mon May 20, 2019 3:05 am

DSC_1611_01.JPG
Resting for CROWS
I continue to detail Tamiya M1A2 Abrams little by little. Now that the M153 CROWS mount is ready for installation, I used an LED chip to synchronize the flicker and sound of the M2 machine gun. It is a video of M2 machine gun.

phpBB [video]


There are still many parts to detail in this model. The black one on the turret is resting when CROWS is folded sideways and stowed.

I have rebuilt the simplified fender holddown torsion bar by integral molding. In the real tank, there is a case that the side end of the track is inserted into the bar as a weight to suppress the bar and the fender from jumping up.

I added a driver's hatch stopper. The handle of the filler cap is a simplified integral molding, so I cut it out and remade it with brass wire.

Many handles of the original model are integrally molded or simplified and have strange shape. The toolbox handles at the top and bottom of the turret are simplified as a one-piece rectangular projection. In particular, if the lid of the toolbox below the turret is a hinge type, the lid can not be opened depending on the position of the turret, so turning this handle will unlock the internal lock and the entire lid will come out. These handles are unique in shape, so I rebuilt them.

The number of handles in the Abrams tank is not more than that of the Type 10 tank, but since there are still many, I have no enthusiasm to remake everything, so I remake only the handrails that stand out to be molds.
Attachments
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Fender hold down torsion bar
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Drivers hatch stopper and cap handle
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Tool box handle
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Tool box handle

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Postby kintaroukinji » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:05 am

It is a continuation of detailing up. I added bolts at the top of the side skirt. These bolts will not be visible if I attach the Explosive Reactive Armor to the side skirts, but now I have no perseverance to add up there.
DSC_1680_01.JPG


In this model, the triangle cable duct near the range finder is interrupted halfway. It is a unnatural and strange shape. In the old 1/35 Tamiya M1A2 model, there are some terminal boxes at the end of the cable duct. The cable duct disappears on the 1/16 model. This is an obvious omission. It has nothing to do with the strength of RC tanks.
After all, I scratched the cable duct with a plastic board.
DSC_1677_01.JPG

DSC_1707_01.JPG

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I added a trooper external phone and a slave cable terminal box.
I added a remote control terminal box and cable to the side of the CROWS machine gun. It looks like the feeling of detail has improved a little. The world of self-satisfaction!
DSC_1664_01.JPG

DSC_1714_01.JPG

I will install the anti-sniper gun barrel coaxial gun (3D printed product). This has not been fixed to the shield yet and has been temporarily placed, but if it is installed, it is also necessary to make a cable duct that leads to this.
However, this cable duct needs to be movable so as not to prevent the barrel from moving up and down.
DSC_1674_01.JPG

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