The debate on the colors of camo

[Saxondog]

When rebuilding my King Tiger(production turret) many comments about my unique color scheme and at least one announcement that they only used three very specific colors.

My view is simple LOGIC look at the photo,two guys painting a King Tiger that already has more than one pattern and the caption points out the shade differences and implies this is do to the overlapping colors creating different "shades". Also the point seems obvious that two guys painting a tank repeated throughout a division is subject to their unit directive or their perspective on what will enable them to survive the environment they are fighting in.

Comments welcome,I am simply stating my view,not facts other than the obvious,two guys painting a King Tiger,Hitler is not present detailing the pattern. Notice the upper and lower pattern,yet common sense would dictate painting from the top down so perhaps they are painting out the older pattern?

And that is the Logic ANY PATTERN WAS POSSIBLE, so in my view all artwork by any modeller is just as accurate as the most meticulous box top art by the renown experts in the hobby world.

King Tiger being painted by two crewmen in a field with spray gun. Third crewmen activities undetermined.

Freedom of expression,paint as you see fit and above all else enjoy what your doing and know That if you like it,then it is the most accurate paint scheme available,just two guys painting a tank. excellent.

(Picture provided by Dietrich)

[JayBrd]

I think once you get into '44-'45 anything can be possible for camo in both patterns and colors. This is really no different than the mix match zim patterns ect.. I think in this time frame of the war any combination of blended colors, brushed or air applied would be the "norm" with the shortage of resources...

[slaychild]

Hello guys. Blake, if I remember correctly. I believe most or not all German tanks came from the factory in one color or another. From what I know, the tank crews painted their tank as they wished. Also crew members painted the wheels until it came down the chain not to paint the wheels camo because while moving they would be spotted much easier. I may be wrong, but I do believe I have read this some where. If this is true, then the only patterns we see and in most paint jobs is what has been documented or pictured. So as I see it is, do what looks great and works. I'm sure this is what they did back then.

[Saxondog]

I think the picture says it all, especially late war. First year of the Eastern Front it was by the book,even the change from Gray to TAN was an effort to maintain cohesion and a uniformed fighting force.

But in the last year of the war,they did what their environment and their resources allowed. My view,and my next Porsche King Tiger and the Henschel King Tiger I am completing are examples of this belief,my Henschel it has been pointed out has five colors,but they are the basic Base coat and the green and red brown in different levels of thinner, that's all.

So to me the pattern I used was a common picture with different tones,but to be sure I am willing to jump in a time machine and observe these guys painting this King Tiger above and asking them why are you painting your tank like that?

Of course with my poor German and a southern accent most likely they will be sitting under the tree will I'm made to paint their tank.

[Saxondog]

Forgot,Slaychild your point about the wheels is interesting,this issue is another one for debate.It would be a worthy discussion,if you have any links please post them?

[Reaper332]

I am no expert on what is correct and whats not and I also know I wasnt there to see these tanks first hand so I believe if you are happy with your paint job and it is close to or somewhere near reference pics we have then you have done a great job. Its all bout enjoying the hobby and having fun with your tank. And I bet you could have lined up 10 KT's back then and none of them would have been exactly the same.
Ken

[caddyshack]

The other factors to consider is paint pigment load, this is variable at the best of time. Now we are talking war time. So what deep shade you may have in your minds eye,may not have been that on a monday morning tank .
So imagine. Tank to be painted by the crew. can of what ever colour you like, lets say green. All this colour application works if , the pigment load is the same in the text 50 tins. The crew shake it well enough up. Lastly how much thinners were used. if for one moment all of those factors were stable. Then you have the colour theory come into how that paint is going to look on that tank when dried. This goes down to the under colours that will be there all ready,then the thinners mix. Too much thinners as in the paint is running out. Will make that paint more transparent, so that will change the colour state of that paint.
Then you have the open air. dust insects. Then a tank not dry off to do battle. Will all change how that tank looks.
Thats why i all ways mix my own colours. As what :-eg tamyia say is the colour green that was used in that shade. Just stop for a moment and think just what could have taking place with that paint.
That also comes to the last bit , which is. The camo patterns.(how much time was allowed to aply them, as in were under attack ) ,These were as artistic as the guy doing it. So no 2 tanks will ever look the same.even if they are all trying to do the same camo patterns.

[Saxondog]

Excellent point,even with the Tamiya Paint,let a tin sit for a week,then shack it all you want and poor it into another container,look in the empty tin? Their in the bottom the pigment that did not mix and the heaviest or darker pigment always seems to be what remains.

In my recent Porsche paintwork,three times I sprayed the base,simply to match the cap.each time sightly darker tone,then still light I sprayed the sealer and thankfully it matched. So many variables that it would seem any reasonable likeness should be considered accurate. Yet weather acrylic or enamel all paint is subject to the mix ratio and the stirring effect for lack of a better definition.

The next Porsche has zimmerite and will be painted using the same base saved from the first,yet I am sure the tone will vary just as much,I mixed 5 10ml bottles of XF-60, And have half left,even though it is in a sealed container the tone will be different due to evaporation.If these guys were painting in the heat of a French summer,or the autumn cool dry air that would also have an effect,drying time,evaporation, the very heat of the metal all would seem to indicate one conclusion,it all is possible,and it all could of existed if based on the three basic color we know were issued. So for the next one tan and red brown should make a nice pink!

Both painted using the same colors mixed differently and applied differently,same clear coat on both

[slaychild]

Blake, I will look for that info about the wheels. I am really sure I have read that, just need to find it. If you want you can check out this site. http://www.ampscentralsouthcarolina.org ... l_Mito.pdf

[jtwirecloth]

i agree with caddy shack, too many variables, with me its, red brown, green, ochre, fantastic camo job, then the critical part to be painted......dirt/dust & rust these will defuse any good or true paint job, but without this last element your tank will look like its in a showroom not a battlefield.