Interesting book on the capture of Tiger 131.

[EAO]

Hello all,

I just finished reading "Catch That Tiger" by Noel Botham and Bruce Montague. . I'm sure many of you Gents across the "pond" know the story full well. I only knew of it's capture in Tunisia. The book was the idea of Major A. D. Lidderdale's son Dave Travis, renowned rock and country music star. He discovered his Father's papers and diary after the Major's death in 1999 at the age of 86. The author's also had help from many sources, including David Wiley, Director of the Bovington Tank Museum in Dorset.

I was surprised to learn of how the tank was captured in basically a close quarter combat situation. I also found it interesting to note that 131 was almost stolen\destroyed by a SS man with the Abwehr spy agency. The most surprising thing was that Lidderdale actually fired the Tiger's cannon at a German Uboat from the deck of the Empire Candida, the transport vessel that 131 was lashed to!

There are a few oddities in the book. Much of the conversations are speculative, as is noted in the acknowledgements. There is also a part where a large air battle is occurring in the Mediterranean. The book states that Messerschmitt Me 110's were more than a match for Mosquitos. I've always been under the impression that the Me 110 was outclassed early in the war and it's most successful role came as a night fighter? This is not to say that some German Ace didn't outmatch some Allied pilots in one. One can witness this in Hans Ulrich Rudel's amazing feats in his Ju 87 Stuka. One last thing I noticed was that in the Epilogue for the book, a certain RAF pilot by the name of Joseph Berry became an ace with 60 V1's and V2's destroyed. I'm assuming that the V2's were on their launchers or being transported on their mobile launch units, as I'm pretty sure no one ever shot down a supersonic V2?

That being said it was a pretty good read.

As a side note, another interesting read is "Wisconsin's Flying Trees in WW2" by Sara Witter Connor. https://www.amazon.com/Wisconsins-Flyin ... 277&sr=8-1. It documents how the vast Northern Woods of white pine became a primary source of wood for the Mosquito and gliders used during WW2. Much of it cut by German POW's ironically! Most of Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose was also made of Wisconsin white pine, so I guess it's nickname is not very correct! It is a bit tech laden by linear board feet, tonnage of glue used for laminate etc., but is a interesting read on a little known aspect of WW2. I found it particularly interesting since I'm a native Wisconsinite.

At any rate, worthy books to pass the evenings with,
Eric.

[Jimster]

Thanks for the heads up! Sounds like the kind of book I like.

[Tiger6]

The Tank Museum put out at statement at the time that "Catch that Tiger" was released that the book was utter nonsense (might still be on their website?) and they were disgusted that the publishers had suggested that they had anything to do with it. I wouldn't take anything you read in that book as even remotely resembling the truth...

here you go:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170704193 ... vnews53143

[43rdRecceReg]

Nonethleless, the image of Tiger 131 firing at a U-Boat, from the deck of a transport ship, certainly has hollywood potential- perhaps with Matthew McConnaughey as the intrepid Lidderdale
It's often said that the first casualty of War is truth, but I always thought that truth was the first casualty of alcohol (never mind about: 'In vino Veritas!).
Anyway, thanks for the review, and with long Covid-19 ridden night approaching- who knows.

I've often wondered whether aircraft destroyed on the ground (including V1s and V2s) contibuted to a pilot's overall tally as 'an ace', but I don't see why not- unless killing a rival pilot in actual combat
makes an ordinary mortal an ace.

[EAO]

The Tank Museum put out at statement at the time that "Catch that Tiger" was released that the book was utter nonsense (might still be on their website?) and they were disgusted that the publishers had suggested that they had anything to do with it. I wouldn't take anything you read in that book as even remotely resembling the truth...

here you go:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170704193 ... vnews53143

Thank you Tiger6 for that info and link. That explains why the book did read more like fiction at times and had an odd feel to it.

I've often wondered whether aircraft destroyed on the ground (including V1s and V2s) contibuted to a pilot's overall tally as 'an ace', but I don't see why not- unless killing a rival pilot in actual combatmakes an ordinary mortal an ace.

43rdRecceReg, excellent question. Perhaps someone else could enlighten us?

At any rate, the book was enjoyable if taken in context. However if I knew it was rubbish, I probably wouldn't have bothered in the first place. I'm really not into "fictional" history!
Cheers guys,
Eric.

[silversurfer1947]

I've often wondered whether aircraft destroyed on the ground (including V1s and V2s) contibuted to a pilot's overall tally as 'an ace', but I don't see why not- unless killing a rival pilot in actual combat
makes an ordinary mortal an ace.

It is my understanding that for most, only victories in aerial combat were included in a pilot's tally. The RAF allowed shared kills, whereas the Luftwaffe was one pilot, one kill. According to Wikipedia, some US commands classed ground destruction the same as aerial victories.
V1 kiils were tallied separately. The record for them was 61, which far exceeds the totals given for RAF fighter aces.

[EAO]

I've often wondered whether aircraft destroyed on the ground (including V1s and V2s) contibuted to a pilot's overall tally as 'an ace', but I don't see why not- unless killing a rival pilot in actual combat
makes an ordinary mortal an ace.

It is my understanding that for most, only victories in aerial combat were included in a pilot's tally. The RAF allowed shared kills, whereas the Luftwaffe was one pilot, one kill. According to Wikipedia, some US commands classed ground destruction the same as aerial victories.
V1 kiils were tallied separately. The record for them was 61, which far exceeds the totals given for RAF fighter aces.

silversurfer1947,

I believe that you're right. I'm still looking for my book on WW2 airplane markings...it's here somewhere. I finally had to adapt to reading on a Kindle as I have way too many "real" books. At least it's cheaper on the Kindle and I can zoom in on the pics.

At any rate, this book explains most of the "scoring" methods used by all combatants. There are also many pictures of planes taken in their respective theater of operations. One picture is a P47 Thunderbolt that has swastikas for the aerial victories, locomotives, tanks, trucks and even horse drawn wagons painted on the fuselage for the ground victories. Apparently, this pilot kept track of everything he destroyed. There is also a picture of a German Ace (Gunther Rall or some other very well known pilot), standing by the rudder of his Me109 as another tally is painted on it. This picture has red stars for the Russians, roundels for the British kills, and white stars for U.S. planes shot down. Another great picture is of a Russian Ace. Oddly enough it appeared that the Russians marked their victories with red stars for enemy planes shot down. I really need to find this book, as I can't recall what the Japanese did for kill markings. I'm thinking they didn't mark their planes as the rest of the Nations did?

Once again, a meandering post that proved to be very interesting (at least to me). Now where is that book?!
Cheers,
Eric.

[EAO]

Just another thought.

We've touched on it before. As we're all history buffs here, I think we'd all agree that the actual facts of history are interesting enough with no need to embellish them with B.S. However, there does seem to be a substantial amount of people out there who must have the facts sugar coated to make them more palatable, then have it spoon fed to them!?

I guess it potentially sells more books, so oh well?

Cheers,
Eric.

[43rdRecceReg]

Just another thought.

We've touched on it before. As we're all history buffs here, I think we'd all agree that the actual facts of history are interesting enough with no need to embellish them with B.S. However, there does seem to be a substantial amount of people out there who must have the facts sugar coated to make them more palatable, then have it spoon fed to them!?

I guess it potentially sells more books, so oh well?

Cheers,
Eric.

Like everything else in the 'Global Economy", history is also up for sale -especially rewritten history, Eric. Sadly, the 'Thousand Yard' stares of those who survived the World Wars ( including Civilians, in WW2)
were occasioned by events, and indescribable atrocities, that our cosseted, overindulged 'Me,Me,Me!' or 'Snowflake' generations can not begin to picture, nor comprehend. This is the era of 'Post-Truth', and anarchic 'Postmodernism' don't forget...