Panzer IVs- spot the difference

[43rdRecceReg]

I meant to include this in my build thread, but it's morphed into a separate issue. Initially, I was going to mount a Heng Long Pz IV upper hull on an Asiatam metal hull/chassis as the basis of a build project. What could be difficult about that?
Well, the Heng Long Asiatam metal hull is definitely too long for the HL upper- ..and here's the visual proof to it. Nobody else had reported this anomaly, so I'd no reason to suspect there could be a mismatch. Getting my metaphorical knickers in a twist about it all, I resolved to make a comparison. I bought an almost entry level Taigen PZ 4 to compare it with the Asiatam hybrid .. a bit extreme, you might think; but hey, any excuse for another tank will do, won't it? In the event, the Taigen looks and feels quite good, but annoyingly, it arrived with two of those badly designed, badly fitting (absence is proof in itself..).. suspension retainer clips missing! I'll need to find two now, and superglue them in place, along with the remainder.
I lined the Asiatam/Heng long up with the Taigen exactly. Taigens have a small overhang at the front- it's incorrect- but that's how they are. Accordingly, I lined the front of the "Project' up the same way. A good match..until you take a look at the rear! oh, lordy, lordy..The Asiatam hull is almost a Centimetre longer than the Taigen. This means I shall have to either: lengthen the upper hull, or shorten the metal base. Guess which one I'll opt for?
As it stands, even the standard tracks will be too short for the Asiatam as- if you look closely- even the idlers stick out further than those on its Taigen neighbour. This has the makings of a modelling horror story..like...'The Panzer rides out' or, 'The Pz and the Pendubum'....

Front glacis in alignment

again:

Another angle...wait for it

While the Taigen and Asiatam/ HL fronts are perfectly in line, there's a certain sinking feeling when checking out the rear (nothing lewd, boys.. )

Spot the various differences..even without glasses

There's a whole world of woe in that metal rear end. Either I've been freakishly unlucky with these disparate parts, or all other attempts to combine them are actually flawed. My advice to someone wanting to build a Panzer IV? Build a Tiger!! Nah..build one, but do not base the project on the Asiatam metal hull..seductive though it appears. You'll be so...rr..y !

[PainlessWolf]

43rdR&R,
One of my builds in line is a DAK early Pz IV. I bought the HL Pro version of this tank with a mind to use an Asiatam lower hull. I'll have to rethink this now. Thanks for the visual description of the issue between the three manufacturers.
regards,
Painless

[c.rainford73]

That's quite a bit longer. Thanks for posting this I was going to order one myself. Hard to believe that simple as that is they are producing something that is that out of alignment.

I wonder if anyone else has encountered this problem. It is an awesome piece.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

[jarndice]

Roy (43 Recce Rgt) and I came to the same conclusion and worked out an answer on another thread,
The Heng Long PZ4 Body rear panel is attached to the main body of the PZ4 by GLUE,
Using a Debonder (Bondloc), I have taken the rear panel off,
I then pressed it into a sheet of thick cardboard to make an impression,
From that I have made 4 paper templates of the panel and I have now transferred the templates to a 2mm thick sheet of Plasticard, gluing them in place with a Prit-Stick,
These I will cut out, using enough of them as I need to make up the extra length so that the length of the PZ4 Body matches the Asiatam hull length.
Shaun.

[Rad_Schuhart]

Again, the problem is how you are aligning it. Install the metal front plate (the one for attaching upper and lower hull in the front) and then put the hulls together and you will see that it fits Ok.

[silversurfer1947]

Purely out of interest, which, if either, is the correct length?

[jarndice]

Richard the Asiatam Metal PZ4 Hull has a history,
When it first came out it was beset with all manner of problems but as it was and indeed still is the only PZ4 Metal hull apart from TAMIYAs available people kept on buying it,
And then kept on complaining to the dealers about them, Which is not really very fair to the dealers, and Steve at www.welshdragonmodels.co.uk eventually refused to stock them and lost a packet trying to sort out his irate customers problems.
They disappeared for a while but then they started to reappear and so mugs such as I thinking all the problems had been resolved went and bought one,
In the words of Frankie Howerd "WOE WOE thrice again WOE",
I sure wish I had saved my £100+ and spent it on a TAMIYA PZ4 bottom end complete with a usable suspension.
As to which is the correct length ? All I know is that the plastic hulls from the different manufacturers are all pretty much interchangeable as far as I know,
So draw your own conclusion. Shaun.

[Rad_Schuhart]

I think the problems with the asiatam hull were mostly mising bits, but the hull stiffeness is WAY better in the asiatam hull than the tamiya one. So that is important for me due to I run over mud and high grass.

[43rdRecceReg]

Again, the problem is how you are aligning it. Install the metal front plate (the one for attaching upper and lower hull in the front) and then put the hulls together and you will see that it fits Ok.

No, it's not, Rad. Having compared and measured the two in real detail- with a variety of measuring instruments, I can confirm that the Asiatam metal hull is indubitably 1cm minimum longer than the Taigen/HL equivalent. In short, they have made a right royal balls up
Having looked around the net for additional confirmation, I found references to the issue on the rc-panzerketten website, where they also concluded that the hull is 1cm too long to be a compatible match for the HL/Taigen upper PZ IV and Jagtpanzer hull.
Here's the link:
http://www.rc-panzerketten-forum.com/wb ... adid=38053 You should be OK with the German.
As Shaun has said, one workable fix is to lengthen the rear section by de-bonding the rear panel, and then packing it out with appropriate filler (like Kim Kardashians rear..allegedly). In this instance, that filler would be sheets of styrene.
While that should solve the fitting issue, it could look a tad irregular to the rivet-counter community, and for this reason, I may cut the Asiatam hull back by up to 1cm, (possibly less because of the angle)..and then re-attach the backplate and idlers. Interestingly, with the idlers set at 9 o'clock ( 'zero' position on the adjustment cycle ), I found that a panzer 4 track was almost two track segments too short for the Asiatam setup. That's another proof of how long it is.

[Rad_Schuhart]

Lol, I have real problems with the german. Im living in Austria but im spanish.

Yep, the asiatam lower hull is a bit longer than the heng long one, but still your problem is the alignement. The upper hull is not over the front part like you are installing it. Is BEHIND that, for being able to use the metal plate to attach both parts together. I measured my upper and lower hull and It is exactly as yours.

So as I told you, maybe when you install the metal plate (the one with the two screws) in the upper hull, then you will see with your own eyes why you can align it.

Look the images in this thread and you might understand it:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17771