Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

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43rdRecceReg
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Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

I've set aside my Firefly project for a while, and finally yielded to the temptation of building a Panzer 4. Yep..despite the pitfalls,niggles, and frustrations outlined in previous posts by such Panzer 4 illuminati or aficionados, as Jarndice, Arnie DK, Philipat to mention but a few.. I could hold out no longer. This is likely to be a long, expletive ridden build (judging by my initial impressions of the Asiatam chassis) but, of course, you won't hear the 'unprintable' descriptors that will accompany it.
First impressions of the Asiatam metal chassis kit? Well, it's really solid- in fact it's built like a...er..er..tank! That's a plus point. Also, having just compared some of the mouldings and cast parts with real counterparts, I'd say that the detailing is pretty good. The good impression faded to grey, though, when I found that the body wasn't straight, and closer examination with a metal rule showed that on side was slightly convex at the front. In turn, this could mean that the wheels and return rollers would be out of alignment...leading to a host of future horrors: pulling to one side, for example or 'crabbing' like an old repaired mini that had a heavy shunt. A hefty squeeze in my metalworking vice bucked its ideas up a bit.. :think:
The instructions arrived on a CD, and I duly printed them out. This was probably a waste of premium inkjet paper and ink, since the illustrations created more questions than they answered. @) Thus, following advice from one of Shaun's posts, I downloaded the Tamiya Pz4 instructions, and suddenly it was as if a veil had been lifted! (no, I'm not religious..) Fiat Lux, boys!. Anyway, they helped give a clearer idea of where things should go, and how they should get there.
The Asiatam kit comes with a lot of wee plastic baggies full of disparate metal parts. Even when I found out where bits should go, it was often a b**ger of a job persuading then to go there, without recourse to drills, files,
emery cloth, hysterical threats.. and my new trusty pin vice...oh, and with super glue here and there. In particular, the supplied suspension system (marked 'Taigen' in faded ink) proved spectacularly obstinate. Annoyingly, some suspension arms are too slack, and will need shims or washers, otherwise the wheels will wander wonkily, as the tracks pass over them. That could be very noisy @) . In addition, two of the retaining clips on the leaf suspension fell apart for no discernible reason, and the others slide around disconcertingly. I can only guess what will happen the first time they're put under real stress :O Boing.. Boing... BANG !!! :-< Ohh well..we'll need to improve these bits before letting them loose on the unsuspecting world! The other fittings need cosmetic, and time consuming detailed attention. It's easy to see why these are sold as kits, and not pre-assembled in some depressing low-paid sweatshop...
Here's what the initial package looked like when dumped on my table:
Pandora's Panzer Box..opened up
Pandora's Panzer Box..opened up
Then, after many hours and satanic invocations, stage one Panzer on the wall in my garden...with calming sea loch in the background! :haha:
Highland pesky Panzer 4
Highland pesky Panzer 4
It'll be a while before I add any updates to the build, as I've yet to decide what model it will be...but I favour an F2 or later. But at least it will be paid for by the money accumulating in my swearbox :lolno: :lolno:
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
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HERMAN BIX
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by HERMAN BIX »

PAIN= translated from ancient runes to mean Panzer IV 1/16th suspension. :problem:

The small & feeble clips that help secure the leaf springs to the arms MUST be kept, but in another form.
I was looking at making some out of brass square tube & securing them with a small screw to the arm.
There are several methods tried that seem to make things better, but none appear to offer 100% reliability.
Even the Tamiya system has failures.

I reckon a firmer spring in the pivot might be better, and have a spring leaf there for show only.

Dont know, but I'm not rushing to do another one to test the theory :thumbdown:
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
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Cruiser133
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by Cruiser133 »

Great idea by asiatam, but very poor execution. I bought ONE, and it will be my last until they fix the shortcomings. It is more economical in my opinion to buy a Tamiya lower to avoid the hassle.
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by Rad_Schuhart »

I bought the Tamiya PIV suspension for my Asiatam Panzer IV, hope it works good.

And please, If you find some way to attach the upper and lower hull, please tell me, because the stock way is bad designed and does not work.
My RC tanks website, loads of free info for everybody:
https://radindustries.wordpress.com/
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43rdRecceReg
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

HERMAN BIX wrote:PAIN= translated from ancient runes to mean Panzer IV 1/16th suspension. :problem:

The small & feeble clips that help secure the leaf springs to the arms MUST be kept, but in another form.
I was looking at making some out of brass square tube & securing them with a small screw to the arm.
There are several methods tried that seem to make things better, but none appear to offer 100% reliability.
Even the Tamiya system has failures.

I reckon a firmer spring in the pivot might be better, and have a spring leaf there for show only.

Dont know, but I'm not rushing to do another one to test the theory :thumbdown:
Two clips actually broke in half of their own volition...and so 'feeble' doesn't begin to describe their state! I've heard of metal fatigue....and even bacteria that feed on metals; but these clips are just plain workshy....real lead swingers >:< Overall, then, the Taigen leaf units supplied look fairly impressive- but I fear they'll lack any kind of bounce absorption potential. I seem to recall a post involving "he who should not be named' exploring that theme...a wee while ago, where an alternative kinked second (shorter) spring was mooted as a solution, and then shown undergoing impressive trials on Youtube. Nonetheless, the Taigen setup is all appearance and little substance...'all marf and no trousers' as cockneys are inclined to say in such instances :haha:
Yep, it looks like a lot of head scratching will be needed, and maybe a spot of lateral thinking too. Must check out the Tamiya take on them..
I'm also mulling over getting a nicely painted F2 from rctank.de as a donor for the project. The dilemma there though we be the same as the one I'm facing with the stalled Firefly effort: Dominique's models are so nicely prepared and finished, that it seems almost like sacrilege to do a Burke and Hare job on them :O :S ...
The Sherman I got from rctank is currently petitioning me not to dismantle, and scavenge it... and hence the sideways move into Panzer 4 territory!
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by jarndice »

My answer to loose suspension clips is to relocate them and apply "LOCTITE", I have never lost one since,
The 1/16 Panzer 4 suspension from all but "TAMIYA" is C ompletely R otten A bsolute P ooh, It does not work and has probably lost Taigen, Torro and Heng Long more sales than any other product,
The really annoying thing is that with so many people making upgrades for 1/16 Tanks why can't someone produce a Panzer 4 suspension upgrade that WORKS ?
It would sell in bucket loads.
I throw the supplied "GRUB SCREWS" that lock in the suspension into the spares box and use "6"mm flat base alternatives,
As to finding a Panzer 4 body and Turret try and find someone building a "NASHORN" Thanks Alwyn, or a Wirblewind, in fact anyone only needing the Heng Long Hull, A decent bargain (Thanks again Alwyn) can be had if you read the build pages of this Forum.
But if you are stuck go to ----
http://www.heng-long-panzer.de
they are selling new F2 body/Turret complete with all wiring for approx. 36 Euros.
I also fitted a beefier Track Tensioner which needed a little work to fit but is worth the effort from ---
http://www.rctank.de
it costs before postage 17 Euros.
Shaun.
I think I am about to upset someone :haha:
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43rdRecceReg
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

Thanks,Shaun, for the sage advice, and to others for useful input. Somehow, I overlooked Heng Long Panzer as a source for the F2 body.. :eh: and that despite the fact that I've bought a few bits fairly recently from them (they also supplied the Clark TK22 I have in my Tiger). That's probably the best option, and will help me avoid the pillaging and despoiling of an rctank.de model... I'll also try the Loctite option for binding the errant spring leaf fastenings, although I shall still have to fabricate a brace of replacements..
The problem with acquiring Tamiya parts in the UK, is that Tamiya's only 'authorised' dealer (Hobbyco.net), has a glitchy, uninspiring, and frustrating website, together with a poor set of user reviews. Finding other viable sources is also fraught with frustration, I find. Then again, I've not really delved deeply into world of Tamiya.....yet. There's an outlet in Edinburgh too, but again reviews from dissatisfied customers (some of them habitual pathological whingers, no doubt..) are rather off putting, when the prospect of parting with bucket loads of money looms up (especially to a scotsman!!) . :O
A Tamiya Panzer 4 would be a welcome addition to my burgeoning armour emporium, but a scary price tag of around £680 carries the prospect of a nervous breakdown with it :D
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by jarndice »

If I was shopping for TAMIYA, both Tanks and accessories I would always start with ----
www.axels-modellbau-shop.de
When an item they advertise is shown as out of stock I usually put in an order anyway, because within fourteen days up to now it has come through my letterbox !!
And your doubts about a certain Scottish dealer, I wonder could you be referring to Wonderland in Edinburgh?
I buy all manner of modelling bits and pieces from them and yes I read story's about them,
They have never let me down and I shall continue buying from them for the foreseeable future.
The only thing I don't care for is they don't offer "PAY-PAL".
Shaun
I think I am about to upset someone :haha:
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43rdRecceReg
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

Yes, Shaun, those were the storIES I was referring to obliquely... but, having been reassured by your buying experience with Wonderland, I shall reinstate then into my personal 'trusted' list. As a matter of principle, I prefer trial and error myself in most things; but where money's involved..a wee bit of circumspection is always advisable.
Meantime, and thanks for the tip, :thumbup: I've ordered the F2 upper hull from HLP.de, together with some HL/Taigen compatible metal sprockets. Somehow, a cold spectre passed over me when I clicked on the sprockets...a sort of portent of doom. I'd just remembered reading about difficulties fitting tracks to them; but, like an intrepid (or addicted) model tanker..I clicked 'buy'/ einkaufen with steely determination :lolno:
Roy.
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
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Re: Asiatam Pz 4- Panzer pain

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

This Pz IV project would test the patience of a saint- and nobody's accused me of being one of those! Heaven forfend :O The first new chore was to get the axle support bearings to fit the drive covers, and then fit them both to the hull. This required the services of my (now) indispensable Dremel...and a lot of unprintable language:
Bearings don't fit the Asiatam housing..drat
Bearings don't fit the Asiatam housing..drat
Now fitting:
Eureka..after one worn out grinder
Eureka..after one worn out grinder
Next, a spot of primer and some fresh sea air:
Note the annoying suspension has already sprung..some clips
Note the annoying suspension has already sprung..some clips
After more cursing, drilling, and modding I began attaching the poorly fitting wheels and one motor/gearbox:
Had to use spot glue to bind outer road wheels to inner ones..
Had to use spot glue to bind outer road wheels to inner ones..
Had to re-orient one drive motor by 90 deg in order to prevent contacts meeting and causing meltdown mayhem
These Taigen Premium 3 motors are a very tight fit..but, they do fit- just. :thumb:
Almost inseparable..but motors just fit
Almost inseparable..but motors just fit
and, in profile:
Looks simple..but it was anything but
Looks simple..but it was anything but
Just getting an idea of what the F2 will look like with the HL upper deck in place. heng-long-panzer supplied the budget upper deck without a commander's cupola..and so Hauptmann Von Dalek stepped in as an ersatz cupola for the present
:haha:
Revolutionary new cupola with commanding presence..
Revolutionary new cupola with commanding presence..
A long road yet for this project, but my next problem will be finding a way to marry the Heng Long upper up with the Asiatam downer. The Asiatam metal hull is almost 1/4 in longer than the HL deck..or, the HL deck is shorter than it should be. Either way, it's another pain. Have a look:-<
HL upper deck..short in the arse department
HL upper deck..short in the arse department
Es tut mir sehr Weh!!
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
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