IR Battle Systems - What's the difference?

[Dr Phibes]

I am fairly new to the forums and have just two tanks at the moment, a recently built Torro KT and a Mato M36 B1. Both have Clark boards installed (TK 24 and TK 22 respectively) and, presently, I have them both installed with HL/Taigen battle systems. As far as I can ascertain this simply means I have both boards set to transmit and receive HL/Taigen IR codes and I have the supplied Taigen IR Receiver 'mushroom' in each (or will have when I get the M36 completed) along with the HL/Taigen IR transmitter(I have also installed receiver indicator LEDs in both tanks already so, like with the Tamiya system, hits are visibly displayed as well). Fine so far.

What I am trying to find out is this: the Clark boards are HL/Taigen and Tamiya compatible and it is a simple matter to switch them from one to the other. So if I want my tanks to be Tamiya compatible (to battle with other tanks with a Tamiya battle system) do I simply change the settings on the Clark boards or do I also need the Tamiya IR transmitter mushroom along with the Tamiya IR transmitter LED?
Are the Tamiya IR transmitter and receivers LEDs also different to the HL/Taigen ones, along with different IR codes?


I have searched around quite a while but just can't seem to find any definitive and/or up to date information on this . Any enlightenment would be greatly appreciated (or a pointer in the right direction) .

[MichaelC]

Clark boards are Tamiya compatible, so all you need to do is change the Clark board setting via the programming remote. You can choose to accept both Heng Long and Tamiya IR signals at the same time, but you can only emit in one or the other.

Apples/emitter etc will all work with both Tamiya and Heng Long.

MichaelC.

[Dr Phibes]

Clark boards are Tamiya compatible, so all you need to do is change the Clark board setting via the programming remote. You can choose to accept both Heng Long and Tamiya IR signals at the same time, but you can only emit in one or the other.

Apples/emitter etc will all work with both Tamiya and Heng Long.

MichaelC.

Thanks for that MichaelC. I suppose what I was wondering was do I need to get the Tamiya hardware to battle with TBS tanks or will the Taigen/HL hardware I presently have installed work (given I change to the appropriate settings on the Clark boards?

[MichaelC]

Clark boards are Tamiya compatible, so all you need to do is change the Clark board setting via the programming remote. You can choose to accept both Heng Long and Tamiya IR signals at the same time, but you can only emit in one or the other.

Apples/emitter etc will all work with both Tamiya and Heng Long.

MichaelC.

Thanks for that MichaelC. I suppose what I was wondering was do I need to get the Tamiya hardware to battle with TBS tanks or will the Taigen/HL hardware I presently have installed work (given I change to the appropriate settings on the Clark boards?

Tamiya TBUs are better but you don't need to have them. In our club we battle with all different emitters and apples (Heng Long, Taigen, Tamiya and DIYs).

[wibblywobbly]

For any of the Clark, IBU, Elmod systems, you can make your own sensor apple. It is only 4 sensors and 1-4 led's.

There are 3 pins on a sensor.
There are 2 pins on an led.
There are 5 pins on the battle system plug.

If you look on the Clark site you will see a simple set up using one led, and one sensor.
The Clark manual shows what each of the pins on the 5 pin plug are for.



All that you do to make a full battle system is copy that but with 4 sensors.
Pay attention to where each sensor pin out goes, two of them cross over. It's easier to do that with the wires after you have soldered them on, than the legs.

The three pins on the sensors are Ground, Signal, and Live.
Just solder wires onto each leg of each sensor, then solder all of the Ground wires togther, same with Signal wires and Live wires. Use heatshrink on all solder joints.
Solder each bundle of wires to a single wire, and run the single wires to the correct wires on the 5 pin plug. Use heatshrink on all solder joints.
The led wires are just + and -, and go on the last two pins. You only really need one, I have no idea where the tradition of having four came from. Use heatshrink on all solder joints.



If you make your own you can hide them on the tank without any apple to plug in, and it will cost you less than £5? The components are as cheap as chips.

A. http://uk.farnell.com/vishay/tsop4838/i ... z/dp/49131
B. Any 5v led for the hit signal.
C. An emitter that works as well as anything else is the Maplins YH70M.

You will then have a system that will have a range of over 30m, and that will work flawlessly with all other systems.

[Dr Phibes]

Thanks very much for that Wibbly -just the sort of info I needed too .
I have seen this kind of set up on other builds but wondered why they sport 4 receiver LEDs (e.g. the 'Vampire' set up I think Tankbear sells) when the Taigen/HL and Tamiya 'apple' only has one (with a pyramid reflector). Is the four LAD set up better than the single with reflector or is just that they can be more easily tucked away?

I'm guessing the multiple receiver (hit) indicator LEDs are just to make hits more of a visible spectacle, like you I think one is sufficient. The pin-outs and wiring are unproblematic for me but, just to be clear, what you are saying is that the four receiver LEDs should be wired in parallel (as should multiple 'hit' indicator LEDs)?
Lastly, (and this is something I was pondering too) are there any differences in the the spec on the Tamiya vs the rest IR receiver LED's, and if so does it make any difference?

Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance

[wibblywobbly]

Don't get confused between sensors and led's.

The IR sensor is the black component. This detects an IR beam of light. You need four of these. (TSOP 4838)
The led's are the visible lights that indicate that the IR sensor has detected the 'hit' from an IR emitter. You can get away with one of these if it is mounted where it is visible 360 degrees. (Any 5v led)
The IR emitter is also technically an led. This emits invisible infra red light on frequency that the sensor can detect. (Maplins YH70M)

The reason you need four sensors is so that the tank can be hit from any direction.

Tamiya use one. The infra red beam hits an internal prism from any angle and reflects the beam down onto a single sensor.
HL use one. It's the same principle but the prism is poor quality, not a mirror finish, and may not detect hits accurately.

The HL system, now apparently discontinued, was designed to operate on a different frequency to the industry standard system that Tamiya/Clark/Elmod/IBU use, hence an HL system can't be used when battling with 'standard' systems.

You can see an invisible infra red led light up if you look at it using a digital camera when firing the gun. That's how I test my installations to make sure that the polarity is correct on the wiring.

You cannot blow an led by getting the polarity wrong. It either lights up if the +(long leg) and -(short leg) are connected correctly, or it doesn't light up at all if they are the wrong way around. You can blow an led by connecting a 3v led to a 5v circuit.

I hope that clarifies how it all works.

[Dr Phibes]

Thanks again for this - yes, you pretty much nailed it. I was mainly asking because I was a little unsure about why some were using 4 IR receiver leds when the 'apples' only contained one. I figured it would be to do with ensuring 360 hits, and your point about the cheaper quality of the pyramid reflector in the HL/Taigen apple explains the huge price difference with the Tamiya unit.

[Tankbear]

I’ve played around a lot with IR receivers, and although having one receiver sounds better in practicality of making it work specially on DIY affair ended up been the receiver would not receive a hit from anything a few minutes away. It’s possible to use just 2 sensors (one front one back) like the WSM T34/Tiger 1 as long as the receiver is visible and not hidden behind a small hole, but the idea of the Vampire was to be hidden and the best approach for consistent results is four receiver sensors hidden behind a 3mm hole.

Like Rob says you don’t need 4 LED’s to indicate your hit, you just need to be visible from all angles. This can be done any way from 1 on roof to a LED every 10mm all way around your tank if you wanted too.

The construction isn’t complex, but there is a lot of soldering. My advise is wire plug to first fit receiver and hit LED, check it works, then move onto next check it works and so on because you only need to get 1 wire point wrong at it stops it all working so easier to check as you go along and if it stops you know only in the last section you did.

For the IR emitter, most people say 940nm but I use 890nm in my tanks and don’t have problems hitting other tanks. With IR emitters the important things are power and distribution. Power you should be looking for something around 100mW or above, simply the more powerful the IR emitter the further it will go. Distribution is probably more important, you want something with a narrow beam distribution because that will project all that power forward onto the target. If the distribution is wide then that same power is spread over a larger area and is diluted compared to narrow beam.

Ian.

[Dr Phibes]

Thanks Tankbear.
When I upgrade my KT turret to servo elevation and recoil I may well at the same time take the opportunity to add the hidden IR receivers as you suggest.