HL IR - A cat amongst pigeons.

[wibblywobbly]

Ok, we all have different preferences for what we do with our models, and some are more willing than others to spend hard earned cash on upgrading them. I am guessing that I fall into the category of 'pull everything out from inside an HL tank and replace it with something better', but there are probably a vast majority of HL owners who leave them stock.

I am wondering whether anyone has explored getting the best out of an HL IR system without fitting aftermarket boards of any type? Has anyone modified the apple or the emitter and increased the range of either? Do they still do that wiggle thing, and how to eradicate it? Has anyone found an alternative way to register a 'hit'?

My thinking is that if the HL system can be improved, then there may be those out there who wish to join a local group, or even create one, who can do so at minimal expense, and enjoy decent battles with other bargain basement IR tanks.

Please keep this thread on topic, it will keep it much easier to read for those seeking useful information.

[971wright]

Hi Rob Some very good points you have put . I do think to get new guys to start I.R. battling you have to keep the costs down, a few years ago there was only one option which was Tamiya ,then came the DBC/DBU which used the Heng Long Board(still wasn't cheap for us in the U.K. if you wanted an assembled unit). Now there are quite a few different systems around(most are plug and play) ,prices vary from quite expensive to very cheap.
If you are going to run just Heng Long you do have to change at least one thing which is the emitter it needs to be in a tube so you don't get the shotgun effect (everything in front of the tank gets hit if you use standard emitter).Then a very cheap upgrade would be to add the Mako board. this would let you battle with both Tamiya and Heng Long.


regards pete

[Horses45]

I know I have a few HL IR tanks but just the ball ache for upgrading them puts me off so I just run them and don't battle but it would be nice to see what all the fuss is about

[wibblywobbly]

I know I have a few HL IR tanks but just the ball ache for upgrading them puts me off so I just run them and don't battle but it would be nice to see what all the fuss is about

It's the guys like you that I am thinking of. If the HL IR can be made more effective, there is no reason why HL only IR battles wouldn't be achieveable. Standard IR will work over 30m, which is more than enough for outdoor battlefields, but I am thinking that for indoor use, a 10-15m range on an HL would be good to go.

If this encouraged more people into the hobby due to the lower cost, then it might give it the lift that it needs.

Converting a BB tank with an RX18 is quite easy. The top of the board has a five pin socket. Two pins for the IR emitter, and three pins for the IR sensor. You can either buy the wiring harness or make them if you have spare plugs lying around.

On the BB tanks you will have to mount the battle unit apple socket, along with the switch for the BB gun under the hatch, unless you are removing the BB altogether, in which case you can junk the switch. You can get a 5 pin apple socket off Ebay or at Maplins, its a standard electronics size. Wire up three pins the same way as the HL one.

Thread the 2 emitter wires through the turret to an emitter.

Ok, so that is the wiring.
Now you need a tube which can be mounted on the barrel or mantlet.
This should have a 9mm clearance between the end of the emitter and the end of the tube. This stops the led beam hitting every tank on the battlefield.
There will not be a muzzle flash, but the recoil will show who fired.

If you want to get clever, you can get a muzzle flash with IR, with a high intensity led, so no need for the HL flash unit.

*****
The main thing to figure out, if anybody has played around with an HL IR system, is what is the range of an emitter and does it improve with a different emitter?

Can the range be improved by using 4 sensors in an apple, rather than the single sensor apple that HL uses?

Disabling the HL wiggle should be possible somehow, by modifying the RX18.

******

A couple of links that are relevant:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=8290&p=74049&hilit ... RAM#p74049

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6392&p=59591&hilit= ... RAM#p59591

[971wright]

Hi Rob indoors the heng long will hit the battle unit at Hyde one end to the other, so you shouldn't have a problem range wise. Testing the HLBU at a meeting we had strange results one side would take hits at 30 metres other 10 front and back around 15. when we opened the unit the mirror was off centre which must have effected the results . I think the quality of the battle unit is not that of Tamiya . having said that they are 10% of the price of Tamiya unit.

I do think this is a cheap way into I.R.battling ,if you can try it out for very little outlay and like it you will want to upgrade to a better system. I do let people borrow my tanks at Hyde (and shows) if their tank is not Tamiya compatible .just to give them a chance of battling without paying out for a Tamiya compatible system.

regards pete

[Tankbear]

Evening guys,

Remembering back to the days of when the MAKO board came on the market and we used it at the MAD battleground the RX18 and standard IR emitter seemed more than capable at hitting long range targets, if any thing people complained it hit everything because it didn't have the tube.

The downside is the receiver build quality keeping range down. The 4 sensor arrangement is way better, because your not relaying on a prism to reflect the signal plus the quality of the sensors bought are much better than the stock HL one.

Ian.

[wibblywobbly]

If HL had done two simple things:

1. Put the emitter in a tube.
2. Fit a four sensor apple.

then the system would have been pretty good in its own right, even if it required something like the Mako board to make it industry standard.

So, to summarise for anyone reading this thread, who wants to try IR battling before spending money on an aftermarket board, the best thing that you can do is get some styrene, or, alloy, or brass tube with a 3mm internal diameter. Cut it so that the tip of the HL led is 9mm inside of the tube (unless someone knows a better length - I know its a contentious issue), and mount that either on the mantlet or the barrel. This is what fires an invisible Infra Red light beam at the apple on the opponents tank. Cost = Pennies.

The HL apple works at detecting hits, but it is made as cheaply as possible. It contains one light sensor facing upwards, and a reflective surface in the apple that directs incoming infra red beams down onto it. The mirror surface isn't high quality and neither is the sensor itself.

By comparison the 'normal' apples have four vertical sensors that point in four directions. The incoming infra red beams can hit the apple from almost anywhere within 360 degrees, with virtually a zero chance of not detecting a hit from an opponents tank that was fired accurately.

Please note that no matter what you do with a standard HL IR system, you cannot simply fit a different IR emitter and apple and get it to work with 'normal' IR equipped tanks. These are two systems that operate on different light frequencies and bit rates (the IR beam is pulsed in a pattern, the sensor and board electronics recognise the pattern).

Give it a try, its the cheapest way into IR battling, and if you find that you enjoy it, you may even be tempted to go for the real thing.

[hawkeye3guns]

Thank you wibblywobbly and Pete
that is just the sort of thing we are looking for in trying to start a club, Its one question a few people have asked me and not knowing the answer or I'll be honest not done any battlying yet 14 vehicles (I got my first IR system at christmas, HL Stug) its great to know there is a way to try out battling with out costing a arm and a leg
It would be nice if we could put together a parts list on here for everone, so we could cost it and people could try it out, and as you said if they want to upgrade at a later point they know its something they want to do and not just an expensive fad
regards Denzil

[Tankbear]

Thinking about it to keep costs down, a simple 2 sensor arrangement might work. The WSN tanks only have 2 (1 forward, 1 backwards) and this seems to work just as well as the 4 sensor version. This vastly makes the DIY apple easier to make and doesn't need PCB or Veroboard. I can upload some diagrams to help explain tomorrow if it helps.

Ian.

[971wright]

Hi Rob its not 3mm for the emitter its 5 mm inside dia , at a push you can use 3/16 inside dia just need to rub down the emitter a tad.All depends what you have in stock or can get from model shop /B&Q . It is possible to fit 4 sensors in the Heng Long battle unit but you have to be good with the solder iron ,Its very tight fit.

regards pete