RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

1) Were those loss numbers just tank on tank? What about anti tank guns, aircraft, lost because of brake downs....ect?....
2) I have to ask, do modern tanks look more like ww2 german tanks or ww2 soviet tanks? Whats the layouts like? I do not know why anyone is even disputing that the ww2 german tanks designs were a dead end. They had to much hull above the tracks, this hull had to be armored and this resulted in german tanks being much heavier than they needed to be.

I will say I have read/watched this thread for a bit now, and um wow. My reply is whole hearted and not meant to sound out of line....

mustclime wrote:2) I have to ask, do modern tanks look more like ww2 german tanks or ww2 soviet tanks? Whats the layouts like? I do not know why anyone is even disputing that the ww2 german tanks designs were a dead end. They had to much hull above the tracks, this hull had to be armored and this resulted in german tanks being much heavier than they needed to be.

Dude, put the shovel down and step slowly away from the hole..... Note the bold highlights... Have you been on in or next to a M-48, M-60, M1a2, LeoA6, (or a Panther, Sherman, KV, or T34 for that matter)in real life? I spent 19yrs in the Army, 13y of which in an Armor Battalion, and I started out with M-60A3's and Then the M1.. Seriously, Your last part of your comment staggers the imagination a tad, may I suggest READING up on things or even previous posts. Do you suggest that the Germans or everyone else should have had S-Tanks?? C'mon, like I said I am not intending to be rude but please give it a rest and pay attention to what some of the senior members are trying to tell you..

jaybrd

we can go on about facts and figures who did what where and when

you can build an indestructible top notch tank but if your logistics cant keep up that tank is nothing more than a blot on the landscape
so all in all it doesnt matter

the germans where having the hell pounded out of there cities by the Brits and US aircrews
so parts,ammo and fuel where of really bad short supply (again logistics)

the russian front fell the same way the tanks got through most things but the logistics couldnt and struggled so again failure
not only do you need an army pulling the trigger but one supplying the bullets and food and clothes

gee....the m48,m60, m1a2 are all rwd like the soviets and none of them have much hull above the tracks like the tiger,panther and king tiger.....I guess I am not being clear. look at this pic...



see all of the hull above this mans sholders? Thats what I am talking about.....now look at the m48....



How much hull is above the tracks on this tank? I am not talking about the turrets, that is a given with the tank. How about the m60?.....



How much hull is above the tracks on this tank? The german tanks needed this extra hull to make room for the drivetrain going foward....if you can't see that, well then I guess trying to discribe the colour red to a blind man.

mustclime the available amount of hull on a german tank to target is a moot point, The combination, quality of optics and gun platform had German armour hitting allied tanks at 2000 meters plus.

Allied tanks could see as much German armour as they wanted ( really though many many British tankers complained they didn't even see their attacker because they were so far away ) when I shoot you at 2km and you have to shoot me at 500 meters or less guess who wins.

yes, of couse no allied tank ever got close to a panther, tiger or king tiger.....except

http://ww2guards.com/ww2guards/AWARDS_F ... RMD.html#4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj97_pTI ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mustclime wrote:yes, of couse no allied tank ever got close to a panther, tiger or king tiger.....except

http://ww2guards.com/ww2guards/AWARDS_F ... RMD.html#4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj97_pTI ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mustclime
your first link talks of hitting Panthers from 100 yards.
the second link you posted on the death of Witman, they say he was killed from a shot from 143 meters by a Canadian Sherman.
I think that link kind of proves what I said. Yes allied tanks did get close because of their numbers but none of your allied tanks could kill a Panther, Tiger or Tiger II at 2000 meters.

you should go back and re-watch it all the way through

1) I thought you were claiming noone could get that close....they did. It was not just numbers, it was the landscape. Haveing a tank that can out range someone is real handy on the russion steps but in the rolling hills of france, its a moot point. Once germany had lost control of the air, it was not possible to park a tiger on a hill top and plink away at the other sides tanks from long distance. German tanks needed cover from the air but where there is cover for the germans, there was cover for other sides as well. This canceled out long ranges of the germans for the most part. All this ment that the thin armor on the sides of the german heavy tanks was where they were going to be killed. What i have been trying to say is this was a unnessarry design flaw that was a result of their fwd layout. The taller your hull, the more you have to armor and if you skimp on this aromr then you have weak point that should not be there.
2) Witman was hit is the upper side of the hull that I have been talking about and it was again very close. He was not able to sit on a hill top and shoot at things a mile away. He was doing what tanks were designed to do, press the attack. The problem is you can not keep the "bad guys" to your front when attacking so again, that long range gun and great optics was of little use where there was cover.

Oooh this topic wil never die will it. If you ask it's more a matter of how the track returns to the front of the tank for it's next turn throught the cycle. The German Panther has the track on top of the road wheels which exagerates the look. If there were return rollers there it would have a different look to it. OK the T34 has the same principle and it still has a decent amount of armour on it's sides. I think it's how you percieve it. The German designers knew what they were doing. Next thng we'll be complaining about is the size of the M1 turret (it is bloody huge!)

The tracks don't generate a force field.....
There is still armour behind those tiddly wheels on the M60.