Mr tankalot's video shows how to replicate a Chieftain's thermal barrel sleeve really well to look a lot more convincing than my stand-off scale "bodge" does, and when I have some spare time (maybe this winter) I may have a go at making some of the scale clamps and refining the strap detail.
It is interesting that he has also used thin sheet foam to give the profile of the thermal sleeve wrapping so it is only the straps and clamps that have been refined in place of the simple cable ties that I have used. This makes a future detail upgrade a good refinement of the same basic technique. I also note that although he has re-used the original HAYA cloth covers over the foam he did suggest that just painting the foam was a possibility so I will try that and see how it looks. I still have my original cloth covers that I can add if the foam painting does not work so well.
Your pictures of a privately restored Chieftain at a local show are excellent and show a lot of interesting details that are always welcome for future reference.
The barrel sleeve on this particular restored tank is interesting as it does not have the usual retaining strap ends hanging down that seemed to be so typical when they were actually in service.
The pictures show the original thermal sleeve barrel clamps detail really well and will make an interesting reference when the time comes to make some to replace my cable ties. I have made no attempt to replicate these clamps at this stage but making them and fitting them (along with improved strap detail) will elevate the thermal barrel sleeve representation to a much higher standard .
HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Re: HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Never too old to learn........
HAYA Chieftain Mk3. Metal Sprockets and Return Rollers
The metal sprockets and return rollers have now been removed and are ready for painting today. They don't come painted on the HAYA model but they do seem to have some sort of coating, but I will still prime them before hitting them with the Tamiya acrylic paint.
I see that the drive sprockets do not have any guides on them to help retain the heavy metal tracks. This is something that I will keep an eye on - especially when I upgrade the motors to give an improved ability to drive over lawns and mildly undulating terrain - something that the original motors struggle with.
The metal front return rollers come with double ball races and turn very smoothly on their axles.
The set of plastic tracks that I bought some time back will be fitted when I put everything back together again to see what effect they may have on the performance. I will weigh the metal tracks, but they feel very heavy compared to the plastic tracks and may be contributing to the need for more power to enable the tank to drive and turn better than it does.
The options are to fit the plastic tracks and see if the motors can perform better than they do (better driving power and steering?) or to fit more powerful motors. I am going to try both!
I will start by fitting the plastic tracks to see if the tank drives any better and steers any better with them fitted, and I have ordered a pair of red 390 motors from HAYA to fit so I can see how the tank can drive with the metal tracks when it has a little more power available.
The spare steel shaft that can be seen on the picture is a hinge pin from one of the opening case lids. It was not pushed in fully when I first bought the tank (probably because it is slightly bent), but it makes no difference as I don't open and close any of the lids on a regular basis so it will remain un-fitted.
I see that the drive sprockets do not have any guides on them to help retain the heavy metal tracks. This is something that I will keep an eye on - especially when I upgrade the motors to give an improved ability to drive over lawns and mildly undulating terrain - something that the original motors struggle with.
The metal front return rollers come with double ball races and turn very smoothly on their axles.
The set of plastic tracks that I bought some time back will be fitted when I put everything back together again to see what effect they may have on the performance. I will weigh the metal tracks, but they feel very heavy compared to the plastic tracks and may be contributing to the need for more power to enable the tank to drive and turn better than it does.
The options are to fit the plastic tracks and see if the motors can perform better than they do (better driving power and steering?) or to fit more powerful motors. I am going to try both!
I will start by fitting the plastic tracks to see if the tank drives any better and steers any better with them fitted, and I have ordered a pair of red 390 motors from HAYA to fit so I can see how the tank can drive with the metal tracks when it has a little more power available.
The spare steel shaft that can be seen on the picture is a hinge pin from one of the opening case lids. It was not pushed in fully when I first bought the tank (probably because it is slightly bent), but it makes no difference as I don't open and close any of the lids on a regular basis so it will remain un-fitted.
- Attachments
-
- CCF7F773-4A67-45D7-8885-662D44165021.jpeg (1005.18 KiB) Viewed 1279 times
-
- 53FE9318-8D35-419A-AC9F-B6DB70A22AC8.jpeg (698.71 KiB) Viewed 1294 times
Last edited by zooma on Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:47 am, edited 4 times in total.
Never too old to learn........
HAYA Chieftain Mk3.Metal v Plastic Tracks
I weighed the original metal tracks that came on the HAYA Chieftain (still unpainted) and then weighed the optional plastic tracks (partly painted) for the Chieftain that were also bought and supplied by HAYA.
The difference in weight is huge and may help to explain why the original motors fitted to the HAYA Chieftain struggle to drive the tank over lawns and mild undulations as well as having problems steering the tank when it is moving at its (not very fast) top speed.
The unpainted metal tracks weigh 1145g.
The part-painted plastic tracks weigh 245g.
The metal tracks weigh over 4.5 times more than the plastic tracks and must make a significant difference to the work load they add to the basic kit motors.
I have pictured them both together for reference.
I am going to try fitting the plastic tracks to see if they help the tank perform better (lower workload on the kit motors), and I have ordered a pair of red 390 motors from HAYA to see if the extra power they provide will help the tank to drive and steer better when using the heavier (preferred) metal tracks.
The tread pattern on the plastic Centurion tracks that I bought from HAYA is not one that I recognise - does anyone know if it is authentic?
The difference in weight is huge and may help to explain why the original motors fitted to the HAYA Chieftain struggle to drive the tank over lawns and mild undulations as well as having problems steering the tank when it is moving at its (not very fast) top speed.
The unpainted metal tracks weigh 1145g.
The part-painted plastic tracks weigh 245g.
The metal tracks weigh over 4.5 times more than the plastic tracks and must make a significant difference to the work load they add to the basic kit motors.
I have pictured them both together for reference.
I am going to try fitting the plastic tracks to see if they help the tank perform better (lower workload on the kit motors), and I have ordered a pair of red 390 motors from HAYA to see if the extra power they provide will help the tank to drive and steer better when using the heavier (preferred) metal tracks.
The tread pattern on the plastic Centurion tracks that I bought from HAYA is not one that I recognise - does anyone know if it is authentic?
- Attachments
-
- 7F282521-6D35-4869-8D1B-463FC0346B98.jpeg (1.28 MiB) Viewed 1275 times
-
- 328A921C-CF88-4C54-B160-F9AFE01FFB18.jpeg (1.37 MiB) Viewed 1275 times
Last edited by zooma on Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never too old to learn........
HAYA Chieftain Mk3. King Kong Motors
Here is the Taigen King Kong Motor shown against the standard HAYA Chieftain motor where the length difference can be clearly seen.
I bought a pair of these motors from HAYA after reading that they are “3 times faster and 5 times more powerful”. It has 12000 torgues while the original motor only has 3000 torgues.
These motors could be ideal for improving the overall performance of my Chieftain, but I am still going to try running it with plastic tracks first to see what difference they make with the standard motors having a lot less weight to move.
I will check the fit of these motors in my Centurion as it also needs a bit of a power boost to enable it to drive and steer better.
The length of the Taigen King Kong motor from the front face that fits against the gearbox side is 48mm, but is probably a little in excess of 50mm when the soldered-on wires are allowed for.
I bought a pair of these motors from HAYA after reading that they are “3 times faster and 5 times more powerful”. It has 12000 torgues while the original motor only has 3000 torgues.
These motors could be ideal for improving the overall performance of my Chieftain, but I am still going to try running it with plastic tracks first to see what difference they make with the standard motors having a lot less weight to move.
I will check the fit of these motors in my Centurion as it also needs a bit of a power boost to enable it to drive and steer better.
The length of the Taigen King Kong motor from the front face that fits against the gearbox side is 48mm, but is probably a little in excess of 50mm when the soldered-on wires are allowed for.
- Attachments
-
- 1586B65A-600C-440B-ADDC-DFA81EF44CA7.jpeg (687.63 KiB) Viewed 1224 times
Never too old to learn........
HAYA Chieftain Mk3. Plastic Tracks - 1st Run.
I run the Chieftain this evening with the plastic tracks and it did run a lot better.
The steering was improved too - and it ran across my lawns OK as well, so this may suggest that with a little more power the tank will run well with the heavier metal tracks fitted back on again too? I will look at fitting the red Taigen King Kong motors next as a final solution (hopefully) to improve the driving and the steering of the tank as it is still not anything like as good as my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 - but with better motors I am hoping that it will be more comparable.
As a matter of interest the track tension was a lot better too (I have not adjusted it from new). Previously when I picked up the tank, the tracks were hanging quiet a distance under the tank - suggesting that perhaps I needed to remove one link (to start with) from each track as the track adjuster did not have enough adjustment left to tighten it up sufficiently.
The pictures I have posted show the metal and plastic tracks to be the same length as each other (or at least not much difference) so the large "sag" displayed when using the metal tracks may be due to the much heavier weight of them (?)
Either way, I am pleased that I bought the (inexpensive) plastic tracks from HAYA as the tank is running much better with them than it did with the metal tracks fitted.
I also took a couple of quick pictures to change those that I first posted during my thermal sleeve bodge to show the tank at a "stand-off" distance and with a first coat of colour on the foam that I used to make the sleeve from as I think it shows it in a better light (and at the distance that it was intended to be viewed at). It looks better than the loose cloth cover did (IMHO), so I am happy that it has made an improvement that can be still further improved with more time in the future.
The tank needs a lot more paint yet to improve its appearance so I will be doing "a little and often" as I try to give the tank a better finish by learning some finishing techniques to try to improve my weakest area (next to electronics!).
The steering was improved too - and it ran across my lawns OK as well, so this may suggest that with a little more power the tank will run well with the heavier metal tracks fitted back on again too? I will look at fitting the red Taigen King Kong motors next as a final solution (hopefully) to improve the driving and the steering of the tank as it is still not anything like as good as my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 - but with better motors I am hoping that it will be more comparable.
As a matter of interest the track tension was a lot better too (I have not adjusted it from new). Previously when I picked up the tank, the tracks were hanging quiet a distance under the tank - suggesting that perhaps I needed to remove one link (to start with) from each track as the track adjuster did not have enough adjustment left to tighten it up sufficiently.
The pictures I have posted show the metal and plastic tracks to be the same length as each other (or at least not much difference) so the large "sag" displayed when using the metal tracks may be due to the much heavier weight of them (?)
Either way, I am pleased that I bought the (inexpensive) plastic tracks from HAYA as the tank is running much better with them than it did with the metal tracks fitted.
I also took a couple of quick pictures to change those that I first posted during my thermal sleeve bodge to show the tank at a "stand-off" distance and with a first coat of colour on the foam that I used to make the sleeve from as I think it shows it in a better light (and at the distance that it was intended to be viewed at). It looks better than the loose cloth cover did (IMHO), so I am happy that it has made an improvement that can be still further improved with more time in the future.
The tank needs a lot more paint yet to improve its appearance so I will be doing "a little and often" as I try to give the tank a better finish by learning some finishing techniques to try to improve my weakest area (next to electronics!).
Never too old to learn........
HAYA Chieftain Mk3. Care Changing Batteries.
To change the tank battery, two screws need to be unscrewed from the rear of the deck - these are neatly hidden under a hinged filler cap (one on each side) and then the deck needs to be gripped on each side to slide it backwards until it is released from the lower hull.
Once the deck has become detached from the lower hull it can be rested on its side while the battery is changed.
The problem with this is that when the top deck is resting on its side there are a lot of wires than are under strain supporting the weight and because some wires are under more strain than others - some of the plugs can pop out of their sockets and need to be traced back to find the appropriate socket to push them back into.
Sometimes the "spare plugs" home is obvious but not always! The plugs that like to escape on my Chieftain are all black plugs (!), and when the non working function is identified they can be traced back to one of the matching spare black sockets - but there is more than one location to chose from and the socket that should be allocated to that function ( according to the diagram of the card) is not where it fits.
The machine gun flash did not work on my tank, but the allocated socket already had a plug in it - so I chanced a spare socket and it worked . I still have a spare wire with a black plug on it floating about and the only things that I can find that are not working are - 1/ the two rear lights and , 2/ the light on top of the turret in front of the gunners position (the searchlight on the commanders cupola works).
If any Chieftain owner has the two rear lights working on their tank and can identify the socket that they are plugged into (and then how to turn them on) please let me know..........likewise the clear square light on top of the turret.
Many thanks to anyone that can help.
Bob.
Once the deck has become detached from the lower hull it can be rested on its side while the battery is changed.
The problem with this is that when the top deck is resting on its side there are a lot of wires than are under strain supporting the weight and because some wires are under more strain than others - some of the plugs can pop out of their sockets and need to be traced back to find the appropriate socket to push them back into.
Sometimes the "spare plugs" home is obvious but not always! The plugs that like to escape on my Chieftain are all black plugs (!), and when the non working function is identified they can be traced back to one of the matching spare black sockets - but there is more than one location to chose from and the socket that should be allocated to that function ( according to the diagram of the card) is not where it fits.
The machine gun flash did not work on my tank, but the allocated socket already had a plug in it - so I chanced a spare socket and it worked . I still have a spare wire with a black plug on it floating about and the only things that I can find that are not working are - 1/ the two rear lights and , 2/ the light on top of the turret in front of the gunners position (the searchlight on the commanders cupola works).
If any Chieftain owner has the two rear lights working on their tank and can identify the socket that they are plugged into (and then how to turn them on) please let me know..........likewise the clear square light on top of the turret.
Many thanks to anyone that can help.
Bob.
Never too old to learn........
Re: HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Take a small piece of masking tape, wrap it around the cable, and write the plug number on it...IE: LED1, CN5, etc.
Derek
Too many project builds to list...
Too many project builds to list...
Re: HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Thanks Derek,
As I identify the function for each lead I will mark them as you suggest - I find this a particularly helpful feature on my Tamiya tanks where they supply printed stickers in every kit to wrap on each lead to act as a permanent reference ........ this becomes ever more useful as the years pass bye since building the kit and the memory fades......
The problem I have at the moment is finding-out what sockets to plug some spare leads into. I will take a picture of the two leads concerned so anyone with a HAYA Chieftain that has the CS TK26 board in it may be able to see where their similar leads are plugged-in on theirs ....and can maybe let me know where they should fit?. They will probably have the same problem with plugs popping out occasionally as the leads are a bit too short.
I could just plug these spare leads into any vacant socket to see what happens, but I don't want to risk causing any damage - but maybe this wouldn't do any harm?....electronics is not my strong point (bit like my poor painting skills really
).)The wiring diagram for the TK26 suggests that some of my wires may not be in the correct (designated) sockets - but everything works (!) apart from the rear lights and the small square lamp on top the turret....and I have two leads with black plugs on them floating about inside the tank that may be the ones that will connect-up these two functions?
I have put a card behind the loose wires in the first picture to identify them and show that they have black plugs on them. The second picture show them both loose inside the tank. I think the leads may have pulled out of the sockets as they are under some tension when the top deck is slid-off to change a battery.
Maybe after I can identify their functions and find out where they live, I will lengthen these wires to reduce the tension on them as this will help to stop them pulling out of the board sockets quite so easily in the future.
Bob.
- Attachments
-
- 649D2726-AA5B-4287-8F05-13656BA534E4.jpeg (500.39 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
-
- 882F273A-9586-45C4-8905-293349828FF2.jpeg (703.08 KiB) Viewed 1112 times
Never too old to learn........
Re: HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Those black ones like that are called Dupont connectors. The two pin ones are usually for LEDs. One of them could be your IR LED if everything seems to be working. If you open the live video feed on your cell phone camera and point it at the LED on the top of the tank in that hood, it should light up purple on your phone camera when the gun is fired. If you plug it in and it still doesn't work, you can safely reverse the connector in the socket if it's an LED. If an LED is plugged in the wrong way, it just doesn't work and no damage is done. An LED by definition is a light emitting diode. Diodes only allow current to flow in one direction in a circuit. I remember a connector with 4 wires in it like that. I can take a look when I get home after my swing shift.
Derek
Too many project builds to list...
Too many project builds to list...
-
Herr Dr. Professor
- Major
- Posts: 5387
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:48 pm
- Location: Southern Wisconsin USA
Re: HAYA Chieftain Mk3- first impressions
Derek, zooma, tankme, and anyone interested: here's a bit more information on handling Dupont Connectors: https://www.mattmillman.com/info/crimpc ... onnectors/ And here's a potential source: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568069 ... pt=glo2usa
I had to laugh, zooma, because your warning from Monday (26-08-2024) exactly describes what happened when I opened my Haya Chieftain: "some of the plugs can pop out of their sockets and need to be traced back to find the appropriate socket." I had to get slivers under my fingernails figuring it out.
I had to laugh, zooma, because your warning from Monday (26-08-2024) exactly describes what happened when I opened my Haya Chieftain: "some of the plugs can pop out of their sockets and need to be traced back to find the appropriate socket." I had to get slivers under my fingernails figuring it out.
