king tiger in winter, info needed

[Dietrich]

Hi Gunshy,
Yes it perhaps is off topic.....but only by going slightly 'off track ' and then adding a joke........You see the French DID actually use the Panther after WW2 because it was such an EXCELLENT medium tank, and then copied the 75mm to equip their own tanks at a later date.....as to the rest of the comment it is clearly intended as a joke......However, in Support of Saxondog..............
I would add the following.................

In WW2 the French surrendered after ONLY 6 weeks fighting.....and they still had over 1.5 MILLION FULLY ARMED and equiped SOLDIERS in the Field.....I believe also with a large contingent of the BEF who were re-landed at Cherbourg ,so the ' joke' does have a lot of merit !!
WE were going to fight on the beaches, in the landing fields etc etc .. WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER !

The French also NEVER joined NATO against the WARSAW PACT...and it was always feared that if WW3 actually started, then they would strike a separate peace treaty

There are of course also the 'Jokey' quotes by famous people which tend to support this view of the French, when it comes to war......Even their own president !

"I would rather have a German division in front of me than a French one behind me."
--- General George S. Patton

"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion."
--Norman Schwartzkopf.....(Desert Storm )

"As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure"
---Jacques Chirac, President of France
Alb.

[Dietrich]

Hi Gunshy,
Having looked up racism in a theosauraus......it is as follows....

rac·ism
? ?[rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Sorry............but I cannot see that the comment about the French fits into this definition............of the word......but I will keep checking others to see if one version does cover it !
Alb.

[Dietrich]

Hi Gunshy,
I have done somemore checking ..and.......
Even the definition from the Encyclopedia Britannica does not fit with the comment about the French surrendering as being 'racist'
Surrendering with 1.5 Million fully armed men in the field cannot be concidered to be :- a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some "races" are innately superior to others......
The full version is listed below...but I really cannot see that it fits......the joke in any way....

Any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview — the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called "races," that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some "races" are innately superior to others. Racism was at the heart of North American slavery and the overseas colonization and empire-building activities of some western Europeans, especially in the 18th century. The idea of race was invented to magnify the differences between people of European origin in the U.S. and those of African descent whose ancestors had been brought against their will to function as slaves in the American South. By viewing Africans and their descendants as lesser human beings, the proponents of slavery attempted to justify and maintain this system of exploitation while at the same time portraying the U.S. as a bastion and champion of human freedom, with human rights, democratic institutions, unlimited opportunities, and equality. The contradiction between slavery and the ideology of human equality, accompanying a philosophy of human freedom and dignity, seemed to demand the dehumanization of those enslaved. By the 19th century racism had matured and the idea spread around the world. Racism differs from ethnocentrism in that it is linked to physical and therefore immutable differences among people. Ethnic identity is acquired, and ethnic features are learned forms of behaviour. Race, on the other hand, is a form of identity that is perceived as innate and unalterable. In the last half of the 20th century several conflicts around the world were interpreted in racial terms even though their origins were in the ethnic hostilities that have long characterized many human societies (e.g., Arabs and Jews, English and Irish). Racism reflects an acceptance of the deepest forms and degrees of divisiveness and carries the implication that differences among groups are so great that they cannot be transcended.

I think that you may have misused the word racist there, in your comment....it is rather widely and easily used these days and as so often, has perhaps, been used out of context or in its correct place.
You can be 'offended' especially if you had a relative or a relation who had fought heroically against the German invaders..... but I cannot see that it is a racist remark....by any definition that I have yet found......
Alb.

[Saxondog]

Jeff, I went to the local shop today,they have a book about King Tigers,their were two Porsche Turret KT in the camo section.One a Winter camo,white over tan that belonged to the 504 abt 1944=45 Turret number 334.

I asked them to hold the book and I will purchased it on Payday which for me is the 3rd. The book is part of the "FIGHTING ARMOR SERIES" bY Osprey Publishing. King Tiger Heavy Tank 1943-45 .

I will post the picture when I have the book,also their was another PKT with the Tiger strip camo from the 500abt. But the strips were the tri-color paint yet applied in "bands or strips"front to back alternating from red=brown, tan, green. Like they started with a base coated tan PKT and sprayed red-brown,green,red-brown strips over the tan base.

I was pressed for time and had to cut my visit short, But they will hold the book for me. Their were only two PKT's in the camo section, as for the Tank I'm painting I did pick up the XF-58 GREEN and will be using it on this one,also I will be able to finish the Henschel I started as they had found one bottle of the matte base I need. This will allow me to compare the two different Greens on the forum which may help some of you guys painting these new tanks.

[streetfighterjeff]

cheers saxon, think i'm going for one of the ss panzer divs, so i can use thier markings, damaged zim and body work. my reasoning being that surely the ss would have got the best tech first and this one has been delivered and seen action. not historicly accurate but should look good. going to do the whitewash with poster paints and a q tip so should look suitably rough. also going to names feur frei and have a shark mouth on the muzzle brake( just cos it looks cool and i hope i spelt the german right)
jeff

[Saxondog]

Go for it,I always use a aircraft T34/85 IMAGE on my tanks barrel guides as a Kill Marker,and hey we don't know what these guys did to their tanks exactly,hell man they lived in their tanks,and like most guys I'm sure they had an affection for their KT'S I know I would have loved my King Tiger or Tiger and proudly painted intimidation graphics.

[Saxondog]

Found This in Panzer Colors III Page 70.

Porsche King Tiger Winter Scheme.jpg (34.94 KiB) Viewed 2663 times

sPzAbt.Feldherrnhalle PzGrn Div.F.H.H. "Anneliese"

[Saxondog]

Another view from my new King Tiger Book=