Thank you very much for your very detailed build, Peter. I am still waiting on mine to be shipped to me, and I will definately use your build thread as the instructions I will follow; as you have already conquered so many of the potential pitfalls of the kit.
-Mike
Hooben T55
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rshermanking
- Recruit
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- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:16 pm
- Location: portsmouth
Re: Hooben T55
thanks guys still aways to go yet , and still to put more detail on but havent decided how much . as for paint i might go for something like this or it might have to go yellow maybe.
rshermanking
rshermanking
-
rshermanking
- Recruit
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:16 pm
- Location: portsmouth
Re: Hooben T55
just small and quick update on adding detail not finnished yet but you get the idea.
rshermanking
Re: Hooben T55
Thanks Mike,
I'm not a T55 guru, I'm only trying to tell you how I put the mechanics together. Others may decide to do things differently or there may be better ways of doing a particular job that I haven't thought of. There are other niggles that may crop up in your build that haven't happened in mine. There is no right or wrong way to do it, the only thing I can say is to check everything, practice each assembly stage as you go, take the manual and its part numbers with a pinch of salt and if you think of something that can be improved, stick your head up and say so!
Don't expect it to go together like a Tamiya - it won't. Its a kit builders kit, sometimes frustrating and occasionally challenging. Expect to dig into your spares box a bit for the odd screw etc and don't rush it. Above all, let us know how you get on with it.
Cheers
Peter
I'm not a T55 guru, I'm only trying to tell you how I put the mechanics together. Others may decide to do things differently or there may be better ways of doing a particular job that I haven't thought of. There are other niggles that may crop up in your build that haven't happened in mine. There is no right or wrong way to do it, the only thing I can say is to check everything, practice each assembly stage as you go, take the manual and its part numbers with a pinch of salt and if you think of something that can be improved, stick your head up and say so!
Don't expect it to go together like a Tamiya - it won't. Its a kit builders kit, sometimes frustrating and occasionally challenging. Expect to dig into your spares box a bit for the odd screw etc and don't rush it. Above all, let us know how you get on with it.
Cheers
Peter
Re: Hooben T55
Hi Everybody,
What I forgot in last nights post was a shopping list for the wheels & idlers.
You will need the following:
1 length hard brass tube 5/16" outside diameter
1 length ditto, the diameter that fits outside it (11/32" I think, the label had come off mine)
20 bearings 5mm inside, 8mm outside x 3mm thick, shielded. Ansmann make them, they are available in the UK from Technobots. I would suggest you order some spares because they are easy to damage when fitting. If you don't damage them, a small stock of bearings never goes amiss anyway for experimental work.
The tubing should be stocked by your local model shop.
You will also need a small cheap tube cutter. Go for the type that has a roller and a hardened steel wheel.
For the idlers you will need 4 x 5mm shielded flanged bearings. Again, order a couple of spares. (Technobots).
I don't think you will need anything else for the idlers (I haven't done the mod yet)
NOTE FROM THE FUTURE - Still working on good solid idler mods that can be done with hand tools. It looks as if a pair of steel 5mm x 40mm will be needed. Cheese head or dome head, not hex or countersunk.
More later
Peter
What I forgot in last nights post was a shopping list for the wheels & idlers.
You will need the following:
1 length hard brass tube 5/16" outside diameter
1 length ditto, the diameter that fits outside it (11/32" I think, the label had come off mine)
20 bearings 5mm inside, 8mm outside x 3mm thick, shielded. Ansmann make them, they are available in the UK from Technobots. I would suggest you order some spares because they are easy to damage when fitting. If you don't damage them, a small stock of bearings never goes amiss anyway for experimental work.
The tubing should be stocked by your local model shop.
You will also need a small cheap tube cutter. Go for the type that has a roller and a hardened steel wheel.
For the idlers you will need 4 x 5mm shielded flanged bearings. Again, order a couple of spares. (Technobots).
I don't think you will need anything else for the idlers (I haven't done the mod yet)
NOTE FROM THE FUTURE - Still working on good solid idler mods that can be done with hand tools. It looks as if a pair of steel 5mm x 40mm will be needed. Cheese head or dome head, not hex or countersunk.
More later
Peter
Last edited by BigPanzer on Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Hooben T55
Hi,
First of all, pardon me while I scream! AAaaarrrghhh!
Hooben have done a dirty on me. 3 idler shafts, but only 9 for the roadwheels
Both the idlers and the roadwheels are tricky. I'm lucky, I have a small lathe here, but most people don't so I did one of the roadwheels by hand just to prove it was possible with hand tools. It is, but you do need to be careful and accurate or your wheels will wobble. Take your time, and if you can lay your hands on an electric drill with a vertical stand it will be a big help. Here is how I did the roadwheels.
Take all 20 roadwheel halves and drill them right through 9mm. Do each one seperately, that way if you get any errors it is only half as serious! I would suggest you take them out in steps rather than all at one go.
Check that each one will fit over your length of 11/32" tubing, and runs with minimum wobble. Now pair them up, press them together but don't glue yet. Once you have selected each pair for "best", (least wobble)
keep the pairs together.
Now take one of the 5mm bearings and check it for fit on the axle shaft. It won't fit, right? This is because of the way they are made. You need to carefully file the bulge off each one so that the bearing will fit right down to the head with no more than light finger pressure. Don't force it, you can easily crack the inside bit of the bearing and ruin it.
Using the tube cutter, cut 10 bits of the 11/32" tube to fit inside the hubs. Unfortunately I have put all my wheels on now, so I can't give you a cutting length but it needs to be the full length of two wheel hubs put together. (OK, call me stupid!!). I would guess about 9.5mm, but check this before you cut. Make sure to keep the tube cutter fully square, with no run off.
Hopefully the tube cutter will have left a burr on the tube. Do NOT remove this burr.
Take the tube out of the vice and REMOVE THE BURR from this end. Now cut the next bit and so on until you have 10 bits of tube, each with a burr on one end only.
I think you can probably see what is going to happen now. The bearings will pop into the tube, but cannot go right through because of the burr.
Clean up the burred end of the tube and smooth it off with fine wet & dry. Now insert it into a wheel pair. The burred end (which is the inside, nearest the hull) needs to be flush with the inside of the hub, the outside needs to be about 0.5mm below the level of the hub.
Adjust if required with a file.
Now you need a spacer to fit between the bearings and this is where the other bit of tube comes in. It must be just long enough to sit on one bearing and keep the outside edge of the other bearing flush with the end of the tube. The chosen size means it will be in contact with the outer edge of the bearing, not the shield, which can damage it. Sorry again folks, they are all inside the hubs now, (call me stupid again) but I would guess the length to be around 3mm.
Check each assembly carefully. Put a bearing in the tube, then the spacer, next the other bearing. Push the axle shaft through the bearings then fit the circlip to the shaft. Everything should rotate freely, with nothing catching and minimal end float. Don't fit the wheels at this stage.
Now you can put the axle shafts on the tank. I started at the rear, next to the sprockets. The size of the slot in the shaft should allow for a tiny bit of sideways adjustment, set this for about the middle position.
The next job is to put the wheels on. Mix up some quick setting epoxy and apply sparingly to the inside wheel half of your first pair then slide it on. Try not to get any near the bearings (obviously!) and check that the wheel half runs as true as possible.
Now apply epoxy to the brass tube where it protrudes through the inner half and stick the outer half on.
Adjust the position of the wheel on the brass until it is exactly in line with the sprocket, check again for true running and keep checking till the epoxy goes off.
Now you need to do 9 more!
So thats it. Providing you have got everything right you should end up with all 10 wheels exactly in line and level with the sprockets.
Take your time and good luck! Remember, check, check and check again.
I was going to talk about the idlers tonight, but having to suss out a way it can be done with hand tools only has caused problems so its not finished. New, longer shafts are required. The work of only a few minutes in the lathe, but.............
I've found a way round it that will work. You will need a pair of 5mm steel screws about 40mm long with either a cheese head or dome head.
Cheers
Peter
First of all, pardon me while I scream! AAaaarrrghhh!
Hooben have done a dirty on me. 3 idler shafts, but only 9 for the roadwheels
Both the idlers and the roadwheels are tricky. I'm lucky, I have a small lathe here, but most people don't so I did one of the roadwheels by hand just to prove it was possible with hand tools. It is, but you do need to be careful and accurate or your wheels will wobble. Take your time, and if you can lay your hands on an electric drill with a vertical stand it will be a big help. Here is how I did the roadwheels.
Take all 20 roadwheel halves and drill them right through 9mm. Do each one seperately, that way if you get any errors it is only half as serious! I would suggest you take them out in steps rather than all at one go.
Check that each one will fit over your length of 11/32" tubing, and runs with minimum wobble. Now pair them up, press them together but don't glue yet. Once you have selected each pair for "best", (least wobble)
keep the pairs together.
Now take one of the 5mm bearings and check it for fit on the axle shaft. It won't fit, right? This is because of the way they are made. You need to carefully file the bulge off each one so that the bearing will fit right down to the head with no more than light finger pressure. Don't force it, you can easily crack the inside bit of the bearing and ruin it.
Using the tube cutter, cut 10 bits of the 11/32" tube to fit inside the hubs. Unfortunately I have put all my wheels on now, so I can't give you a cutting length but it needs to be the full length of two wheel hubs put together. (OK, call me stupid!!). I would guess about 9.5mm, but check this before you cut. Make sure to keep the tube cutter fully square, with no run off.
Hopefully the tube cutter will have left a burr on the tube. Do NOT remove this burr.
Take the tube out of the vice and REMOVE THE BURR from this end. Now cut the next bit and so on until you have 10 bits of tube, each with a burr on one end only.
I think you can probably see what is going to happen now. The bearings will pop into the tube, but cannot go right through because of the burr.
Clean up the burred end of the tube and smooth it off with fine wet & dry. Now insert it into a wheel pair. The burred end (which is the inside, nearest the hull) needs to be flush with the inside of the hub, the outside needs to be about 0.5mm below the level of the hub.
Adjust if required with a file.
Now you need a spacer to fit between the bearings and this is where the other bit of tube comes in. It must be just long enough to sit on one bearing and keep the outside edge of the other bearing flush with the end of the tube. The chosen size means it will be in contact with the outer edge of the bearing, not the shield, which can damage it. Sorry again folks, they are all inside the hubs now, (call me stupid again) but I would guess the length to be around 3mm.
Check each assembly carefully. Put a bearing in the tube, then the spacer, next the other bearing. Push the axle shaft through the bearings then fit the circlip to the shaft. Everything should rotate freely, with nothing catching and minimal end float. Don't fit the wheels at this stage.
Now you can put the axle shafts on the tank. I started at the rear, next to the sprockets. The size of the slot in the shaft should allow for a tiny bit of sideways adjustment, set this for about the middle position.
The next job is to put the wheels on. Mix up some quick setting epoxy and apply sparingly to the inside wheel half of your first pair then slide it on. Try not to get any near the bearings (obviously!) and check that the wheel half runs as true as possible.
Now apply epoxy to the brass tube where it protrudes through the inner half and stick the outer half on.
Adjust the position of the wheel on the brass until it is exactly in line with the sprocket, check again for true running and keep checking till the epoxy goes off.
Now you need to do 9 more!
So thats it. Providing you have got everything right you should end up with all 10 wheels exactly in line and level with the sprockets.
Take your time and good luck! Remember, check, check and check again.
I was going to talk about the idlers tonight, but having to suss out a way it can be done with hand tools only has caused problems so its not finished. New, longer shafts are required. The work of only a few minutes in the lathe, but.............
I've found a way round it that will work. You will need a pair of 5mm steel screws about 40mm long with either a cheese head or dome head.
Cheers
Peter
Re: Hooben T55
Hi,
Another late night. Unless anybody raises any points this will be the last part of my diatribe on putting the lower hull together. I will be pausing for a while as I take the lower hull to bits for painting and my first serious attempt at weathering where it won't show too much.
I will also be held up for a some time as I consider exactly what electronics to use and decide on an internal layout.
OK, lets have a look at the idlers. You will need to delve into your scrapbox for a couple of washers, 5mm i/d. Sorry, I only realised these were advisable when I started assembly this evening.
The idlers are another ally cast item and come in two identical halves each. Between the two halves is a narrow brass bearing. This bearing runs on a steel shaft which is fitted into the adjuster. The part of the adjuster that accepts the shaft is only ally, and if metal tracks and/or serious hammering are envisaged this may well require a bit of beefing up. I also can't see the brass bearing lasting too long.
I have not yet done this mod (my ever faithful scrapbox let me down so I don't have the right size of tube), but it might well be worthwhile finding a bit of brass tube of the right size to fit over the bush in the ally adjuster casting, drilling the side of the tube 3.5mm where the setscrew fits and epoxying it on. Then file the end of the tube flush with the ally casting and smooth it with your bit of fine wet & dry.
This might stop the ally cracking if you have a heavy tank with metal tracks and continually run into bricks or otherwise try to break your models!
I need to stress the need for accurate working when modding the idlers. If you are limited to hand tools then look at the bits you have to modify and don't over estimate your capabilities. It can be done ( I did it on one side to prove it )
Take each idler half and file down the sides of the locating pips slightly. Mine were slightly oversize, which prevented the idlers fitting together properly.
Drill each half right through 10mm dia. This is the critical part, you need to get your enlargement exactly right or you will have idler wobble. It is easier to go up in 0.5mm sizes.
Using a mandrel, or the shaft of the drill you have used if it is not scarred, pair the idler halves up for "best" running and mark them for left/right and inside/outside.
Check that the bearings will fit into the enlarged holes, then remove them.
Now we need to look at the 40mm screws. What needs to be done to them is to clamp them in a vice vertically and file the heads down until they resemble a pancake about 1mm thick. Look at the original shafts to give you a guide.
Take the mutilated screw out of the vice. Now what you need to do is to file off all the thread on the first 15mm or so. That is, the end remote from the head.
You need to get this reasonably accurate because you are going to put this end in a drill chuck, put the drill in a vice and use it as a rudimentary lathe to get the remaining length of the screw thread down to a size to accomodate the bearing. It is easy if you use the thread depth remaining as you file as a guide, but you don't need to be super accurate.
If you remove the whole thread then one of the idler bearings should slip over your screw for the first 15mm or so.
Remove the bearing from the shaft, put the shaft in a drill chuck and mount the drill in a vice. Using a fine flat file WITH A HANDLE FITTED TO THE TANG, skim the remaining length of the screw lightly. The look of the thread that remains makes a useful guide.
I had to remove about 1/3 of the thread depth to get the bearing a light press fit, but you can't take that as gospel because the depth that a thread is rolled to can vary. So keep checking.
The reduced end of the screw that you had in the drill chuck has now served its purpose and you can cut the screw off to around 20.5mm long from the underside of the head. When you do your test assembly the length might need to be reduced slightly.
File a flat on the shaft to take the setscrew in the adjuster.
Now we can go back to the idler wheels. The head of the shaft you have just made needs to be flush with the outside of the idler hub so the outside hub half needs to be counterbored to take the bearing flange and shaft head. I used a stepped cone cutter to do this. How deep you need to go depends on how thick your head is (?) but no deeper than 2mm.
Now you can test assemble everything. The washer goes between the adjuster and the shaft and will help to keep crud away from the bearing. You might find that you need to counterbore the inside idler half to take it, but only by 0.5mm or so.
If everything goes together well and runs reasonably true, you can take it apart and put it together properly. The two halves of each idler need to be epoxied together and Locktite is needed on both the outside and inside of the bearings.
Keep checking as the locktite cures that everything still runs true and free.
There you are folks, I hope the first section of the build has been of interest and helpful. More will follow (do I hear groans?)
Regards to all T55 enthusiasts
Peter
Another late night. Unless anybody raises any points this will be the last part of my diatribe on putting the lower hull together. I will be pausing for a while as I take the lower hull to bits for painting and my first serious attempt at weathering where it won't show too much.
I will also be held up for a some time as I consider exactly what electronics to use and decide on an internal layout.
OK, lets have a look at the idlers. You will need to delve into your scrapbox for a couple of washers, 5mm i/d. Sorry, I only realised these were advisable when I started assembly this evening.
The idlers are another ally cast item and come in two identical halves each. Between the two halves is a narrow brass bearing. This bearing runs on a steel shaft which is fitted into the adjuster. The part of the adjuster that accepts the shaft is only ally, and if metal tracks and/or serious hammering are envisaged this may well require a bit of beefing up. I also can't see the brass bearing lasting too long.
I have not yet done this mod (my ever faithful scrapbox let me down so I don't have the right size of tube), but it might well be worthwhile finding a bit of brass tube of the right size to fit over the bush in the ally adjuster casting, drilling the side of the tube 3.5mm where the setscrew fits and epoxying it on. Then file the end of the tube flush with the ally casting and smooth it with your bit of fine wet & dry.
This might stop the ally cracking if you have a heavy tank with metal tracks and continually run into bricks or otherwise try to break your models!
I need to stress the need for accurate working when modding the idlers. If you are limited to hand tools then look at the bits you have to modify and don't over estimate your capabilities. It can be done ( I did it on one side to prove it )
Take each idler half and file down the sides of the locating pips slightly. Mine were slightly oversize, which prevented the idlers fitting together properly.
Drill each half right through 10mm dia. This is the critical part, you need to get your enlargement exactly right or you will have idler wobble. It is easier to go up in 0.5mm sizes.
Using a mandrel, or the shaft of the drill you have used if it is not scarred, pair the idler halves up for "best" running and mark them for left/right and inside/outside.
Check that the bearings will fit into the enlarged holes, then remove them.
Now we need to look at the 40mm screws. What needs to be done to them is to clamp them in a vice vertically and file the heads down until they resemble a pancake about 1mm thick. Look at the original shafts to give you a guide.
Take the mutilated screw out of the vice. Now what you need to do is to file off all the thread on the first 15mm or so. That is, the end remote from the head.
You need to get this reasonably accurate because you are going to put this end in a drill chuck, put the drill in a vice and use it as a rudimentary lathe to get the remaining length of the screw thread down to a size to accomodate the bearing. It is easy if you use the thread depth remaining as you file as a guide, but you don't need to be super accurate.
If you remove the whole thread then one of the idler bearings should slip over your screw for the first 15mm or so.
Remove the bearing from the shaft, put the shaft in a drill chuck and mount the drill in a vice. Using a fine flat file WITH A HANDLE FITTED TO THE TANG, skim the remaining length of the screw lightly. The look of the thread that remains makes a useful guide.
I had to remove about 1/3 of the thread depth to get the bearing a light press fit, but you can't take that as gospel because the depth that a thread is rolled to can vary. So keep checking.
The reduced end of the screw that you had in the drill chuck has now served its purpose and you can cut the screw off to around 20.5mm long from the underside of the head. When you do your test assembly the length might need to be reduced slightly.
File a flat on the shaft to take the setscrew in the adjuster.
Now we can go back to the idler wheels. The head of the shaft you have just made needs to be flush with the outside of the idler hub so the outside hub half needs to be counterbored to take the bearing flange and shaft head. I used a stepped cone cutter to do this. How deep you need to go depends on how thick your head is (?) but no deeper than 2mm.
Now you can test assemble everything. The washer goes between the adjuster and the shaft and will help to keep crud away from the bearing. You might find that you need to counterbore the inside idler half to take it, but only by 0.5mm or so.
If everything goes together well and runs reasonably true, you can take it apart and put it together properly. The two halves of each idler need to be epoxied together and Locktite is needed on both the outside and inside of the bearings.
Keep checking as the locktite cures that everything still runs true and free.
There you are folks, I hope the first section of the build has been of interest and helpful. More will follow (do I hear groans?)
Regards to all T55 enthusiasts
Peter
Re: Hooben T55
Peter, more pictures please? The internal layout,gun pivot point and how it is held in place,the elevation unit,rotation unit and recoil unit type,placement and the gearbox mounting. Just very curious as everyone knows the external look as they have been on the web for a while, but the internal arrangements are almost unknown, forgive me for being so demanding, but I wouls like to see these things because one day HOOBEN mat actually produce the M100 and I really like the look but id their Tanks are junk inside then they can keep them. Thanks SAX
Re: Hooben T55
Hi Sax,
I can't help very much at the moment as I haven't tackled the interior. It is unlikely I will be using the Hooben electronics, but I have the rotation, elevation and recoil mechanisms on the way to me. I will let everybody know what they are like when they arrive. I will probably have to modify them to work on the internals I have in mind.
I'm expecting to find some barrel wobble because the recoil sleeve seems quite slack and the barrel is quite heavy, but other than that I really can't make any comments yet, sorry.
The internals I will probably use are a pair of car type speed controllers and a Benedini Mini module and amplifier. This will give me twin stick steering, which I quite like because I think it gives a more realistic driving experience and the Benedini module has several outputs which can be programmed to control other functions. The disadvantage of this system is that it ideally needs a 5th prop channel on the Tx to fit the Benedini encoder to. I already have this fitted to my Tx. (It can be done with a non prop channel but using it is then more complicated.)
It also needs quite a bit of wiring, but I'm used to that. This is the system I've used on the Gepard and it works very well.
One thing I don't like is the suggested speaker position with the Hooben system. Its just stuck to the top of the gearboxes with no baffle board and I can't see that this will do much for the sound quality. I hope to improve this.
I also anticipate having to make up a non standard shaped battery pack.
You also have the option of fitting Heng Long, Tamiya or ElMod electronics.
More info will be forthcoming as I do the work and solve the various problems that are bound to come up with any non standard interior.
What I suspect Hooben are doing is letting their customers do their development for them. There are parts on the sprues that are not required and the manual is obviously being altered as they modify bits.
If I wanted one of the models they are shortly to release I would go for it, but they aren't on my current shopping list.
I would be very interested to hear what an out of the box factory built T55 runs like with the standard electronics package, but so far nobody has stuck their head up.
Peter
I can't help very much at the moment as I haven't tackled the interior. It is unlikely I will be using the Hooben electronics, but I have the rotation, elevation and recoil mechanisms on the way to me. I will let everybody know what they are like when they arrive. I will probably have to modify them to work on the internals I have in mind.
I'm expecting to find some barrel wobble because the recoil sleeve seems quite slack and the barrel is quite heavy, but other than that I really can't make any comments yet, sorry.
The internals I will probably use are a pair of car type speed controllers and a Benedini Mini module and amplifier. This will give me twin stick steering, which I quite like because I think it gives a more realistic driving experience and the Benedini module has several outputs which can be programmed to control other functions. The disadvantage of this system is that it ideally needs a 5th prop channel on the Tx to fit the Benedini encoder to. I already have this fitted to my Tx. (It can be done with a non prop channel but using it is then more complicated.)
It also needs quite a bit of wiring, but I'm used to that. This is the system I've used on the Gepard and it works very well.
One thing I don't like is the suggested speaker position with the Hooben system. Its just stuck to the top of the gearboxes with no baffle board and I can't see that this will do much for the sound quality. I hope to improve this.
I also anticipate having to make up a non standard shaped battery pack.
You also have the option of fitting Heng Long, Tamiya or ElMod electronics.
More info will be forthcoming as I do the work and solve the various problems that are bound to come up with any non standard interior.
What I suspect Hooben are doing is letting their customers do their development for them. There are parts on the sprues that are not required and the manual is obviously being altered as they modify bits.
If I wanted one of the models they are shortly to release I would go for it, but they aren't on my current shopping list.
I would be very interested to hear what an out of the box factory built T55 runs like with the standard electronics package, but so far nobody has stuck their head up.
Peter
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forgebear
- Warrant Officer 1st Class
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Re: Hooben T55
hi pete
im still with you on this
i have all the hobeen lecs for my one but as you know i wont be starting it till i have done all the other bits and tanks i have on the go when i get time i will set it up and run the lecs then let you know what they sound like
thanks dave
im still with you on this
i have all the hobeen lecs for my one but as you know i wont be starting it till i have done all the other bits and tanks i have on the go when i get time i will set it up and run the lecs then let you know what they sound like
thanks dave
