1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 Patton tank with ERA - Build
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
For the frontal glacis, TONGDE does not provide much. Only the small groups on the side of the driver's hatch are reusable. The main part provided for the glacis has no relations to the part required, and there is no bottom group provided.
This situation is surely because of some decision to configure the chassis of an M-60A1 Dozer version instead of a regular tank chassis. My recommendation to TONGDE is to either provide a Dozer blade for this model in the future, or redesign the frontal ERA and headlights to match a regular tank chassis. As it is, the M-60A1 model is wrong and looks weird.
Regarding the mounts provided, its only a few pins per group.
I can understand why no one wants to reproduce the M-60A1 ERA mounts... However, i plan to do them using thick 3mm wide brass strips, 1.8mm tubing and M1.2 hex bolts, and try to have some fun with it...
The ERA mounts need to be completely redone. I am also checking if the blocks are not a bit too thin but i was not able to conclude on that yet. I might have to add a plasticard at the back to make them thicker.
View of the mounts on the 1/35 kit, but its simplified and not accurate either. The 1/35 turret has no location holes and i can see that most pins are not long enough. I am pretty sure that accurately adding the ERA blocks on this 1/35 kit is a struggle even for master modellers.
See what i am talking about. These mounts are highly visible. I have a strategy in mind to facilitate their creation.
I previously filled all the positioning holes on the turret. I forgot to fill these on the chassis. Anyway, the position is wrong. The tip location should be closer to the periscope.
In preparation for the ERA, i have ordered brass material from Knupfer, and installed the turret basket.
This situation is surely because of some decision to configure the chassis of an M-60A1 Dozer version instead of a regular tank chassis. My recommendation to TONGDE is to either provide a Dozer blade for this model in the future, or redesign the frontal ERA and headlights to match a regular tank chassis. As it is, the M-60A1 model is wrong and looks weird.
Regarding the mounts provided, its only a few pins per group.
I can understand why no one wants to reproduce the M-60A1 ERA mounts... However, i plan to do them using thick 3mm wide brass strips, 1.8mm tubing and M1.2 hex bolts, and try to have some fun with it...
The ERA mounts need to be completely redone. I am also checking if the blocks are not a bit too thin but i was not able to conclude on that yet. I might have to add a plasticard at the back to make them thicker.
View of the mounts on the 1/35 kit, but its simplified and not accurate either. The 1/35 turret has no location holes and i can see that most pins are not long enough. I am pretty sure that accurately adding the ERA blocks on this 1/35 kit is a struggle even for master modellers.
See what i am talking about. These mounts are highly visible. I have a strategy in mind to facilitate their creation.
I previously filled all the positioning holes on the turret. I forgot to fill these on the chassis. Anyway, the position is wrong. The tip location should be closer to the periscope.
In preparation for the ERA, i have ordered brass material from Knupfer, and installed the turret basket.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Wed May 31, 2023 12:48 am, edited 5 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Now with lots of material expected from DKLM (metal and resin upgrades) and Knupfer (brass) to complete the model, i will have to put this build on ice for a few weeks.
Regards, Louis
Regards, Louis
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Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
And we shall wait(on ice, or in my case ice in glass) for the story to continue...................
That ERA mounting system is a build all of its own by the looks.
That ERA mounting system is a build all of its own by the looks.
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Hi,
Until i get the brass material for the ERA mounts, i realize i could at least prepare the ERA blocks.
There are 2 types of ERA blocks, this is the square one. Notice the position of the bolt heads, matching the mounting bracket underneath.
And the rectangular one. They are all of the same size but arranged in various groups or rarely stand alone.
Be aware that the blocks on the front bottom hull were sightly different. Not sure if this is accurate but i used the ACADEMY kit for reference.
I did a last try to get to a bolt pattern that would more closely match the real one. Calculations for the bolt size was made by triangulating some measurements and i got a ratio of 10% to apply against the size of the squared 1/16 block. According to this, the washers should be about 1.75mm wide and the bolt head about 1mm.
However, creating 1.75mm wide washers out of trimmed down 2mm plastic rod with a Meng 1mm hex bolt head applied on top was a failure. It simply did not look good. It is extremely difficult to create washers of the same thickness and center the tiny bolt head over it. Plus the realization i would have to do this 360 times made me discard such stupid plan.
WIthout an M-60A1 in my backyard to take measurements, I made some attempts to calculate the proper thickness of the ERA blocks. The ones coming with the model are 2mm thick, which look too thin. Using pictures where the sides of the real blocks were looking at me (but never perfectly), i was getting different results, calculated with a few samples that the ERA should be between 2.75mm and 3.2mm wide. As adding an average 1mm to the block was visually a bit thick, i made a decision of adding 0.75mm and make all ERA blocks 2.75mm thick.
All the ERA blocks provided by TONGDE were thoroughly cleaned up of all features upside down using knife, sprue cutter and nail files outside in the wind. Its a dirty job. The blocks were made totally flat and are 2mm thick.
The M-60A1 ERA setup of composed of a total of 90 blocks, of which only 60 a provided by TONGDE, mainly for the turret. So 30 blocks of the same square and rectangular patterns (except the front bottom) need to be scratch built. Take note that the blocks are not absolutely and perfectly aligned on the tanks, there is sometimes a little distorsion so it is actually more accurate to show the ERA not perfectly aligned like a chess game. The final size of each block group need to be tested against the hull because it required some minor adjustment to adapt to the exact dimension of the hull in relation to the headlight guards.
Measurements and pattern for the frontal hull ERA groups and the missing turret top group came from the Academy 1/35 kit. The ERA blocks were separated into chicklets, numbered and individually refined.
The all the TONGDE and scratch built ERA were glued to a 0.75mm thick plasticard sheet. The groups for the scratch built blocks were recreated.
Then the block groups were cut, and all the sides sanded smooth, refined and polished so that no seam is apparent. Finetuning will be required after priming when little gaps and scratches become more apparent.
Continuing on following post
Until i get the brass material for the ERA mounts, i realize i could at least prepare the ERA blocks.
There are 2 types of ERA blocks, this is the square one. Notice the position of the bolt heads, matching the mounting bracket underneath.
And the rectangular one. They are all of the same size but arranged in various groups or rarely stand alone.
Be aware that the blocks on the front bottom hull were sightly different. Not sure if this is accurate but i used the ACADEMY kit for reference.
I did a last try to get to a bolt pattern that would more closely match the real one. Calculations for the bolt size was made by triangulating some measurements and i got a ratio of 10% to apply against the size of the squared 1/16 block. According to this, the washers should be about 1.75mm wide and the bolt head about 1mm.
However, creating 1.75mm wide washers out of trimmed down 2mm plastic rod with a Meng 1mm hex bolt head applied on top was a failure. It simply did not look good. It is extremely difficult to create washers of the same thickness and center the tiny bolt head over it. Plus the realization i would have to do this 360 times made me discard such stupid plan.
WIthout an M-60A1 in my backyard to take measurements, I made some attempts to calculate the proper thickness of the ERA blocks. The ones coming with the model are 2mm thick, which look too thin. Using pictures where the sides of the real blocks were looking at me (but never perfectly), i was getting different results, calculated with a few samples that the ERA should be between 2.75mm and 3.2mm wide. As adding an average 1mm to the block was visually a bit thick, i made a decision of adding 0.75mm and make all ERA blocks 2.75mm thick.
All the ERA blocks provided by TONGDE were thoroughly cleaned up of all features upside down using knife, sprue cutter and nail files outside in the wind. Its a dirty job. The blocks were made totally flat and are 2mm thick.
The M-60A1 ERA setup of composed of a total of 90 blocks, of which only 60 a provided by TONGDE, mainly for the turret. So 30 blocks of the same square and rectangular patterns (except the front bottom) need to be scratch built. Take note that the blocks are not absolutely and perfectly aligned on the tanks, there is sometimes a little distorsion so it is actually more accurate to show the ERA not perfectly aligned like a chess game. The final size of each block group need to be tested against the hull because it required some minor adjustment to adapt to the exact dimension of the hull in relation to the headlight guards.
Measurements and pattern for the frontal hull ERA groups and the missing turret top group came from the Academy 1/35 kit. The ERA blocks were separated into chicklets, numbered and individually refined.
The all the TONGDE and scratch built ERA were glued to a 0.75mm thick plasticard sheet. The groups for the scratch built blocks were recreated.
Then the block groups were cut, and all the sides sanded smooth, refined and polished so that no seam is apparent. Finetuning will be required after priming when little gaps and scratches become more apparent.
Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sat Jun 03, 2023 3:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
View of some ACADEMY 1/35 block groups. Take note that when i checked against reference pictures, i noticed a couple of mistakes in the positioning of the bolt heads on the rectangular blocks. Applying the 360 bolt heads in a consistent manner requires a method.
I did it by creating a template, using a leftover block from the unused TONGDE glacis block for their Dozer setop, which is still inaccurate by the way.
The bolt heads are still positionned in a squared pattern but slighly inclided. I calculated that a 12mm square plasticard should be used to get the right distance between the bolt heads. It took me a couple of attempt, first with a 11 square that was too small. Now the challenge is to find the inclination that matches reference pictures before making the holes on the template.
Using the template applied against every block, it is a fast and efficient way to mark the positions of the bolt heads, and applied with consistency.
Now it is time for the cutting and installation of the Meng SPS-007 1.4mm bolt heads on all blocks, all 90 of them for a total of 360 bolt heads. It takes a couple of hours where i typically do it robotically with my mind elsewhere, usually thinking of my youth, former girlfriends and other pleasant thoughts to keep my sanity.
As usual, the nuts are cut with a new blade, picked up individually on the top with the tip of the blade, bottom soaked in superglue that was deposited on a plasticard scrap, excess glue is wiped against it and the bolt head is then deposited on the marker.
All 90 USMC M-60A1 ERA blocks are ready for mounting on the model.
Notice the added 0.75mm thickness added to the blocks. The corners and side still need finetuning after priming to eliminate any remaining scratch or gaps. The bolt heads can be sanded a bit to reduce their height. They are too high compared to reference.
The SPS-007 MENG nuts are not perfect but they have the advantage of being available, really cheap and relatively fast to install.
This is it for now, the next step is to create the mounting brackets when i get my brass material from Germany.
Regards, Louis
I did it by creating a template, using a leftover block from the unused TONGDE glacis block for their Dozer setop, which is still inaccurate by the way.
The bolt heads are still positionned in a squared pattern but slighly inclided. I calculated that a 12mm square plasticard should be used to get the right distance between the bolt heads. It took me a couple of attempt, first with a 11 square that was too small. Now the challenge is to find the inclination that matches reference pictures before making the holes on the template.
Using the template applied against every block, it is a fast and efficient way to mark the positions of the bolt heads, and applied with consistency.
Now it is time for the cutting and installation of the Meng SPS-007 1.4mm bolt heads on all blocks, all 90 of them for a total of 360 bolt heads. It takes a couple of hours where i typically do it robotically with my mind elsewhere, usually thinking of my youth, former girlfriends and other pleasant thoughts to keep my sanity.
As usual, the nuts are cut with a new blade, picked up individually on the top with the tip of the blade, bottom soaked in superglue that was deposited on a plasticard scrap, excess glue is wiped against it and the bolt head is then deposited on the marker.
All 90 USMC M-60A1 ERA blocks are ready for mounting on the model.
Notice the added 0.75mm thickness added to the blocks. The corners and side still need finetuning after priming to eliminate any remaining scratch or gaps. The bolt heads can be sanded a bit to reduce their height. They are too high compared to reference.
The SPS-007 MENG nuts are not perfect but they have the advantage of being available, really cheap and relatively fast to install.
This is it for now, the next step is to create the mounting brackets when i get my brass material from Germany.
Regards, Louis
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Hi,
A small update to the ERA blocks.
I found it bizarre this morning when i wrote my earlier report that the ERA on the front bottom would be different than the others. It made no sense so i went back to my references.
Clearly, the ERA on the bottom are of the same size as the ones above.
So, i made the mistake of taking the specs from the 1/35 Academy kit without checking with reference pictures.
We can see that the bottom group are of a different size than the one above and totally inaccurate in size and shape. It must not be used for specs.
The rectangular ERA on the sides are also positionned higher than the middle ones.
So, back to the drawing board to redo this part. I have experience with this ERA now so it goes pretty fast.
New bottom ERA group is created and the old inaccurate one is discarded.
Regards, Louis
A small update to the ERA blocks.
I found it bizarre this morning when i wrote my earlier report that the ERA on the front bottom would be different than the others. It made no sense so i went back to my references.
Clearly, the ERA on the bottom are of the same size as the ones above.
So, i made the mistake of taking the specs from the 1/35 Academy kit without checking with reference pictures.
We can see that the bottom group are of a different size than the one above and totally inaccurate in size and shape. It must not be used for specs.
The rectangular ERA on the sides are also positionned higher than the middle ones.
So, back to the drawing board to redo this part. I have experience with this ERA now so it goes pretty fast.
New bottom ERA group is created and the old inaccurate one is discarded.
Regards, Louis
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Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Great idea with the bolt template. Templates are something we don’t think to use often enough to simulate manufactured parts.
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Yes, in the case of repetitive tasks, a template or jog is most effective and fast.
I started the ERA mounting with some brass material i had. But after this, i have to wait.
Looking at the glacis, we can see the brackets attached to the hull used to mount the ERA blocks, with a metal frame at the tip that seems to act as a bumper to protect the ERA, i assume in case the tank hits a tree or something else.
It seems complicated at first but when looking at one item at a time, its actually quite simple. Notice the attachments soldered to the bumber but screwed on the hull. That's easy to replicate.
From the back, we can see the brackets extending and the braces for the ERA attachments, linked to each bolt on top of the blocks.
We can see that the bumper is horizontal and made of 4 sections.
Let's start with the creation of the bumber parts, made in 1.5mm plasticard, size and dimensions eyeballed from many pictures in the Sabot book. The Academy 1/35 kit is useless in this area.
The tips of the bumper are given a groove and glued to the tip of the glacis.
Parts of the top attachments seen in pictures are created. The brass is 4mm wide and thick. The attachments of the bottom will be ignored for now and not sure i will be able to install any because the upper hull needs to remain removable.
The attachements are assembled.
These attachments need to be solidly glued to the bumper so grooves were carved on the brass with a blade in order to create anchors for the superglue. It makes a huge difference in solidity.
And then installed. These are not only decorations for accuracy, they really keep the bumper solidly in place.
Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Frontal view. Keep in mind that it is not required for these bumper parts to be perfectly aligned. It is not a Ferrari. Looking at references, we can see that the bumper parts can have some misalignment.
We can see the bracket extending towards the front too, so this is important to lenght calculations.
I have to create many of these ERA mount brackets, so in order to ensure they have the proper height, have consistency and to speed up the process, a simple JIG was created in plasticard. It can be used for the basic bending for all brackets, including the ones for the turret.
There are no specs for these so a prototype was manually created by trial and error until it seems right. The spacing bettwen the lower areas for the 3 bolts is calculated and tested. The upper areas need to fit under the ERA block.
After, they were finetuned with pliers. With the material i had, i was able to create 6 brackets in about 90 minutes. The jig and the brackets are not perfect but are good enough as these are mostly hidden. They show from the sides and through different angles depending on the ERA group and angles. They will be bolted to the tank using M1.2 brass bolts.
They are allowing the ERA to be positionned on the tank like the real thing. The jig ensures the ERA is properly supported with brackets that have the same height and provide a flat surface. It surely beats creating some fake plastic spacer to mount the ERA, like TONGDE did.
Close up on the braces to secure the ERA blocks. Someone really patient and that spends $200 on brass bolts can actually bolt the ERA exactly like the real thing.
The braces will be made in 2mm wide brass strip. Its going to look good.
That's it for now. Next time you see the M-60A1, it will have its ERA.
Regards, Louis
We can see the bracket extending towards the front too, so this is important to lenght calculations.
I have to create many of these ERA mount brackets, so in order to ensure they have the proper height, have consistency and to speed up the process, a simple JIG was created in plasticard. It can be used for the basic bending for all brackets, including the ones for the turret.
There are no specs for these so a prototype was manually created by trial and error until it seems right. The spacing bettwen the lower areas for the 3 bolts is calculated and tested. The upper areas need to fit under the ERA block.
After, they were finetuned with pliers. With the material i had, i was able to create 6 brackets in about 90 minutes. The jig and the brackets are not perfect but are good enough as these are mostly hidden. They show from the sides and through different angles depending on the ERA group and angles. They will be bolted to the tank using M1.2 brass bolts.
They are allowing the ERA to be positionned on the tank like the real thing. The jig ensures the ERA is properly supported with brackets that have the same height and provide a flat surface. It surely beats creating some fake plastic spacer to mount the ERA, like TONGDE did.
Close up on the braces to secure the ERA blocks. Someone really patient and that spends $200 on brass bolts can actually bolt the ERA exactly like the real thing.
The braces will be made in 2mm wide brass strip. Its going to look good.
That's it for now. Next time you see the M-60A1, it will have its ERA.
Regards, Louis
Re: 1/16 RC USMC M-60A1 US tank with ERA - Build
Wow...That is a lot of good work there.
Derek
Too many project builds to list...
Too many project builds to list...