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Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 11:46 pm
by michaelwhittmann
I say this to everyone.
Too pretty. Muck it up. A little filth, a little crud, a little home-made rust, a little mud, some battle damage, a commander with one arm missing leaking blood all over the place. It's a weapon of war not a museum exhibit. No tank washes on the Chosin Reservoir.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:43 pm
by Ad Lav
Each to their own - mud and grime needs to be put on well otherwise it looks cheap and rubbish!
I’ve only seen a handful do it right.
The only thing I’d remove is the Snow Leopard sticker.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:11 pm
by michaelwhittmann
Ad Lav wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:43 pm
Each to their own -
ABSOLUTELY!
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:13 pm
by Tiger6
Rust is not really a thing on an operational tank. The tracks will go a dark colour, but you won't see any red rust due to the alloy composition. Same goes for armour. Tanks rarely spent enough time at the front to go properly rusty, and as soon as they got pulled off the line they would be repainted - a senior NCO is not going to allow his men to stand around idle while their tank is a complete shambles.
As perhaps an extreme example, in the war diaries of a 79th Div Kangaroo unit it seems like the first thing they did every time they relocated was paint their vehicles - typically every 2 to 3 weeks.
I have also read that (at least for trucks), unless in combat, British drivers were required by regulations to clean their vehicle once per week. If you showed up for inspection parade with a rusty vehicle, I'm sure the Sgt Major was going to have something to say to you on the matter...
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:16 pm
by ColemanCollector
Ad Lav wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:43 pm
Each to their own - mud and grime needs to be put on well otherwise it looks cheap and rubbish!
I’ve only seen a handful do it right.
So very true! Rust, mud, and damage--minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.
Mike.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:26 pm
by Roboticus_Prime
This is how I weather my tanks with mud.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:44 pm
by michaelwhittmann
Tiger6 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:13 pm
Rust is not really a thing on an operational tank. The tracks will go a dark colour, but you won't see any red rust due to the alloy composition. Same goes for armour. Tanks rarely spent enough time at the front to go properly rusty, and as soon as they got pulled off the line they would be repainted - a senior NCO is not going to allow his men to stand around idle while their tank is a complete shambles.
As perhaps an extreme example, in the war diaries of a 79th Div Kangaroo unit it seems like the first thing they did every time they relocated was paint their vehicles - typically every 2 to 3 weeks.
I have also read that (at least for trucks), unless in combat, British drivers were required by regulations to clean their vehicle once per week. If you showed up for inspection parade with a rusty vehicle, I'm sure the Sgt Major was going to have something to say to you on the matter...
Mother Nature hates steel. Mother Nature does not recognize steel; she recognizes iron. So as soon as steel is introduced into any environment, she immediately starts turning steel into iron via oxidation forming rust. It's evitable.
No matter how meticulously you paint a steel surface, paint tends to flow away or thin out from angles. Obtuse angles not so bad; 90 degree and and acute angles forget it no chance the paint will prevent Mother Nature from getting at that steel. That's where rust will begin and spread. If it isn't repaired properly; repainting is pretty much useless since rust expands.
Tanks, weapons of war as I call them, add many more obvious causal factors. Most caused by the crew itself or transporting infantrymen or banging thru bush and trees. Not to mention enemy action.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:47 pm
by MrChef
ColemanCollector wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 2:16 pm
Ad Lav wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 1:43 pm
Each to their own - mud and grime needs to be put on well otherwise it looks cheap and rubbish!
I’ve only seen a handful do it right.
So very true! Rust, mud, and damage--minutes to learn, a lifetime to master.
Mike.
Rust is often such an over used effect that I very commonly see in the modeling segment. I firmly stand by if it's in service, minimal if any rust. Our WWII tanks didn't often last long enough to rust with the exception of say exhaust shrouds, and possibly tracks in a wet to dry environment or even the desert ironically. And MBT's really shouldn't have any since they are kept well or unless are a burn up, loss or abandoned.
Dirt on the other hand I am quite liberal with.
But again to each his own.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:32 pm
by Tiger6
michaelwhittmann wrote: ↑Thu Feb 22, 2024 3:44 pm
Mother Nature hates steel. Mother Nature does not recognize steel; she recognizes iron. So as soon as steel is introduced into any environment, she immediately starts turning steel into iron via oxidation forming rust. It's evitable.
You are confusing cheap low alloy, high carbon steel corrosion rates with the high alloy content, very low carbon material used to make armour and tracks.
Tracks typically have a higher Manganese content, which gives good corrosion resistance in addition to the ductility required.
Armour steel has Nickel, Chromium and Molybdenum, all of which also improve the corrosion resistance of iron considerably.
Re: First Pershing tank
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2024 4:33 pm
by Herr Dr. Professor
I concur with Tiger6 and MrChef. I have dozens of books on WWII AFVs and aircraft: among photos of AFVs in active duty, I don't see much rust at all: scratches, dust, mud, dirt galore---even some in fresh paint (esp. whitewash). E.g.: I will only rust up the outside and carbon blacken the inside of the exhaust on my T26E3, but that's an example of a tank that was in the European theatre a short time in early '45.