Tamiyas latest Full Option Tiger 1......

[Dietrich]

Hi Guys,
I have just found THIS on 'Axels-Modelbau-Shop'........
http://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/kata ... ::225.html
.
Its apparently the latest Tamiya ' Full Option' and it costs 449.95 Euros which is a good price.....BUT...in the description, and I quote.......(From the end of the second line in the first paragraph.......)
' First check out the firing of the main cannon, complete with true to life flash and cannon recoil. The shot is so powerful that it actually causes the tank itself to recoil, just like the full size Tiger I'
and this ' Recoil' is clearly shown in the video clip.
Tamiya it would appear have now added a 'Track Recoil' action to the main gun firing .......OOPS.....they have been ' Infected' by the 'other' companies that offer this function that some of us try to eliminate.

Unfortunately for them 56 TONS of steel Tiger 1 does NOT move on its tracks when the main gun is fired, (its only a 20 Lb shell and the gun has a muzzle brake )......
Check it on 'YouTube'.....Gun recoil YES...Track recoil NO......and certainly not to this degree. Its not as bad as the Heng Long.....but it still is not a good thing to see !!

I cannot find the recoil 'force' figure for the Tigers 88mm BUT I did find this excellent Pdf on the 88mm issued by the British on 29 June 1943....its about the standard '4 legged and wheeled mount' for the 88 AT/AA gun ; which had NO muzzle brake of course, but it is all useful stuff.
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref ... Germ88.pdf
Alb.

[mustclime]

As far as I know....all of the tamiyas have track recoil.....its just very small and nothing like the heng long convultions.....My tamiya m26 has it and its just the smallest little bump.....

[mustclime]

fyi.....look at 1:45 on this vid, there is a light rock when the tank fires....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvIata-vCoY

[Dietrich]

Hi ,
At that ONE point in the video you can see a TINY amount of recoil,a Very light rock..... at other points in the video there is NO movement at all......Other videos do not show ANY movement at all.
I was unaware of any Tamiya having a 'Track Recoil' .....but I was simply posting it because I thought that it was a NEW Tamiya feature. The Video of the kit does clearly show that Tamiya have rather unfortunately got the scale wrong.....even if its brakes were off ............. Can I ask ....Do Tamiyas also 'Track-Recoil' even if the gun is facing to the side or even towards the rear ??....or do they have an over ride switch linked to the turret rotation motor ??
Alb.

[Dietrich]

Having just checked on Tamiya America......... the Tamiya advertised and in the Video is their item number 56010.....which is discontinued having been replaced by 56011...which is discontinued and the current version is 84273 which is a special version modeled on on the Bovingdon Tiger tank, and is the only tank that does not start with a '56' catalogue number. I guess that it is old stock...which may explain the recoil scale error in the video .......
I just thought that I was highlighting a new Tamiya product.......but apparently not.

[Reaper332]

All my tamiya's do have track recoil and the amount depends on what the MF unit is set at,
ie: Heavy / Medium or Light

[mustclime]

Hi ,
At that ONE point in the video you can see a TINY amount of recoil,a Very light rock..... at other points in the video there is NO movement at all......Other videos do not show ANY movement at all.

Real tanks have brakes, if the driver has engaged the brakes when shooting, the tank will not move. If the braks are off, the tank will rock backward when shooting......just like real tanks will roll down hill if not in gear and rc tanks for the most part will not. Most drivers would engage the brakes so as not to allow the tank to move when engaged, this would allow gunners a better second shot at a target.

[Dietrich]

I started this post because I thought that it was a new Tamiya feature, but it seems that it is not. The only Tamiya I have does not have the battle system so I am unfamiliar with its workings.

I think that the amount of 'recoil movement' that is passed to the chassis will depend on the size of the gun and the weight of the platform that it is mounted on. Artillery pieces that are a large gun on a very light weight chassis recoil to a large degree but large guns mounted onto heavy tanks chassis hardly 'move' at all.

Just to carry on the conversation..... I would have thought that ALL tanks would have fired with the brakes ON if the tank was stationary. This would ensure that the gunner gets a better chance to hit the enemy target. So if the tanks do not move with the brakes on, then I wonder why Tamiya and Heng Long both have the 'Track Recoil' function ?
Thanks to 'Reaper 332' I understand that The Tamiya system can be programmed at 4 levels for Heavy, Medium ,Light and very light tanks, so it seems odd that they have included this function that makes the tank 'Track Recoil' more the lighter it is.......

Mustclimb, Please can you tell me if this 'Track Recoil' function can be turned OFF to simulate a Crew firing with the brakes ON.....and is there a limit switch that stops the 'Track Recoil' action when the turret is facing sideways or to the rear?
I would expect that Tamiya have incorporated this into the system because NO tank moves backwards when it fires to the side and doubly so with the gun facing towards the rear 3/4.
Alb.

[FreakyDude]

you guys sure its the tank that moves or is it the camera?
an 88 would have a muzzle blast circle strong enough to shake a camera at a good distance. Anybody ever see the water beside a battleship when it fires? same effect, only difference is the camera would move making the tank appear to move.
I just can't see firing a shell moving a 50+ tonne tank.
See this video
there is a guy on the back of the tank even when it fires and he is eyeballing the shot through binoculars or a camera or something.
I say the myth of track recoil is busted at least on a Tiger I. By the same effect I think anything heavier than 35 tonnes is going to be the same unless it is a monster gun.

[FreakyDude]

Eastern Front I feel like really proving my point here so... just because I know that Mass trumps most everything,
As for the Mighty Mo please read the article and you do the math,
http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-022.htm
that sir is pretty good proof that if you seen the movement it is actually blast cavitation or what ever the scientists would call it.
I have watched a few videos tonight and I didn't see a single tank rock with the exception of a Hummel and well that isn't even close to a tank.
With a muzzle brake active and working it is impossible for a 8.8cm gun (firing any type of standard shell ) to make a Tiger rock. Even without the muzzle brake it would be impossible to have a significant rock.
Both Tamiya and Heng Long are wrong to have track recoil on their Tiger I tanks.

My 2 centsa here..
No matter the gun, there will be energy transferred to the hull, the hydraulic braking mechanism on the guns will slow the recoil but as you know, you slow the recoil the energy has to go somewhere---the hull.
A Battleship firing a full broadside will actually move sideways in the water about a full foot, I have seen this with the "Mighty Mo"

There are alot of videos of various tanks firing and the recoil ultimately going to the hull and tracks, of course the heavier the tank the less the effect..

I think that tamiya was trying to create the jump in the tracks that you se when its fired and not neccessarily the actual tank movement itself..

Cheers!