Gun Rights in the UK

[tankmad]

As it has already been said it was Thomas Hamilton that got guns banned in the UK for killing these young children in Dunblane in 1996. I live at about 50 miles away from Dumblane and it was a real shock what happened that day if banning guns stops some lunatic from doing this again then I am all for it. What I don't agree is banning replicas and deactivated guns no one has died with these.
Stevie

[Woz]

Problem with deactivated guns ia they can be easily re activated.

[Saxondog]

Actually you have to be trained in a school and qualify to have the right to carry permit. Full background check,Liability insurance and a complete understanding of the responsibility of gun ownership. So I will defend that system here in Tennessee and other states. If you cannot fire the weapon correctly,pass the written exam,qualify for the permit, then no gun.
I don't intend to start a pissing match here about gun control, I do not own a handgun although my wife does. I have several long guns,only one have I purchased new,the others were given to me when I turned 13,and more still are family guns passed down when my father died and my wifes father died.

I have heard alot today about the political reference and true to their nature they are already trying to link this to gun control,funny they did not offer the same when a Muslim went on a rampage at Fort Hood. The only point I am trying to make is an armed population is safer than an unarmed one. But the responsibility of the cost of a criminal,his trail,his incarceration falls on the HOMEOWNER TAXPAYER, and it is that group that gets all the negative press about owning guns when the same press will not openly discuss the Tax burden caused by criminals.
Saxondog


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[Abo]

I feel VERY strongly about the issue of guns in this country. I was a cop for 33 years in the second largest city in the UK, including 5 years on a dedicated riot unit so I wasn't exactly in a backwater for my service. I am also lucky enough to own a home in the US so I like to think I have a reasonably informed outlook on this topic.

During those 33 years I was lucky enough never to have been shot at or even threatened with a firearm, the closest I got was just before I retired, chasing three scumbags as a traffic officer ( I know!) after they had commited two armed robberies. Gun crime in the UK is MAINLY gang related and occurs, again in the main, what we called black on black....gangs! There are some EXCEPTIONAL cases such as we have just had where people have gone on the rampage and caused untold harm and death to innocents, but in this country, horrible as it is, is not the norm. We do NOT have the kind of gun culture the US has and hopefully never will, its not our way.

When I travel to the US, I feel there is a different atmosphere there, I love the country, love the people. My next door neighbour is a gun owner. He's not going to climb a water tower anytime soon but I still don't like his attitude to firearms. If I want to go round for a beer after dark, I have to phone him. Everytime he answers the door at night its with a Glock in his hand! He isn't the only one like that either. The area we live is nice ,private homes, no problems, only 20 minutes from Macdill AFB so there are many service personnel living on the estate and several cops ( who take their cars home which is a great deterent!). We have a four way stop sign up the road that apparently is always asking for it, as, over the years, its been shot full of holes but apart from that... nothing, however I still don't feel as safe there as I do here.

The US have had this gun thing ingrained in ther psyche since the days of the revolution and its stuck. Perhaps its because they are a younger country than us, I don't know, but we appear to have moved on from those days and don't feel the threat or need. we are not a frontier society ( unless you visit sparkhill) and the gun as an excuse for defence isn't part of who Brits are anymore, thank god! Ask some Americans to give up a gun and they go on as if you've asked to abuse thier kids. The need to bear arms may have had some justification 200 years ago but its been allowed to continue, especially with a strong self serving gun lobby, and its a merry go round they can't get off now and don't appear to want to citing the old " its my constitutional right" well it was a right once to have slaves too and we stopped that didn't we? Luckily WE did as can be attested to by ( accounting for population differences) the number of US gun deaths as opposed to ours.

In answer to your question Sax, I think we changed because we didn't perceive the same "threats" you Americans did and still don't, we may have a similar language but we are a TOTALLY different culture. and, with all due respect, I'm glad of that difference.

[BigPanzer]

Hi,

Gun laws in the UK are a pain in the butt, but I can see the sense in them. Years ago I used to shoot both rifle and pistol regularly, all legally owned and used on approved ranges owned by gun clubs. I've shot clays, skeet, small and full bore rifle, black powder, .22 .38 and 9mm pistol and have owned guns for each discipline. At one time I also owned a very rare item - a Tranter six shot sporting rifle with a revolver cylinder.

At the level I was shooting at (I eventually reached County level) safety and responsibility were taken very seriously and those who saw firearms as penis extensions were rapidly disarmed. However, at local Club level things were different and I once left one club because I didn't consider their range safety was sufficient. Proper training was also minimal. I was lucky, my father was in the Army and used to shoot for the Signals team. He taught me very severely at an early age about firearms.

The thing that really annoyed me was the compensation level when handguns were banned. At the time the only handgun I owned was a .38 S&W service revolver with WD markings in absolutely mint condition and complete with its original lanyard. I had to hand it in, but I did get compensation - a whole £16! A tiny fraction of its true value.

Trouble is, the current laws only affect the law abiding citizens. The criminal element have no difficulty in obtaining firearms.

I would love to take up target shooting again, but the hassle of getting my FAC back is not worthwhile.

The problem with de-acs is this - if somebody points one at you, how do you know it won't fire?

As I see it, the law in the UK is too harsh. It should be relaxed to some extent, but owners should be vetted by a specialist Police team, which includes mental health specialists, closely monitored and the costs involved recovered by increasing the cost of the FAC. Also, before any FAC is issued there should be mandatory training.
If this had been done years ago then Hungerford and Dunblane might not have happened and people like myself would then be able to persue their interest and would be able to enjoy their hobby, albeit with severe restrictions.

Just my 2p worth!

Peter

[littletankman]

Problem with deactivated guns ia they can be easily re activated.

Hi to re activate deactivated new spec rifles it would be more economical to sneek one into the country . I have a new spec Garand semi auto rifle . It has a blocked barrel all the internals are removed whats left is ground down and full of weld so you couldnt re fit anything , its just a hollow shell . To get the new spec to fire you would need a barrel , full internal parts including the gas system so basicaly the only bit you would keep would be the woodwork and to say these can be made well in that case your building a compleate gun not re activating an old one . The old specs have full internals so may be different , but still awkward to reactivate . new spec deactivated bolt action rifles have more parts that work but its cheeper to buy a live firing bolt action rifle than it is a deactivated one . Pluss not many people are going to walk into a bank holding a garand rifle if he hid it they would persume he had over dosed on vigra , being a long weapon the only exception being pistols I supose . But you could put a bannanna in a bag and say it was a gun . So ban bent bannanas and brown paper bags ! But I can see the point if its a pistol shoved in your face . Its always the law abiding people that suffer all the crimanals carry on carrying guns regadles of any ban . I feel for the guy who got £16 for a pistol thats rediculus compared to its value . A lot of rare weapons were destroyed , personaly I think any thing of historical intrest should be kept in a museum , mind you I think some were.

[Saxondog]

Another part of our laws concerning guns, after two generations the family air-looms, taking on a different value that makes the guns much harder to confiscate. I grew up in a house with guns hanging on racks in the family room. Many southern homes were this way until criminals changed their focus and were targeting homes with guns. Many of the family guns that were in those racks had been given to my father by his grandfather and father, my dad being the oldest child.

But what know one has told me is how your politicians were able to take a right from you and still remain in office? Sax

[jrc]

Same way Sax your government sold off your Federal Reserve to Private banks, very quietly.

Ross

[Abo]

They took it from us sax because we didn't deem it important, its difficult to explain our society but guns have NEVER been important to the general population of the UK, EVER. It was never a huge part of our "constitution" to "bear arms". It was in your laws from day one, 200 odd years ago. We've had 2000 years of laws and guns came in quite late into our history.

When the US was formed, you feared another invasion from us, so you carried arms. When you pushed your frontiers west and found the natives, you carried arms. When the frontier towns sprung up and the rule of law hadn't followed, you carried arms. You have a HUGE group of people who distrust government, and to "protect" themeselves from that government they carry arms, god knows why . We NEVER had to go through any of that and we followed a different route, its no loss, its nothing we miss. All we want is to be able to protect our families and homes but that doesn't mean we have to be issued with guns.

Sorry to say, and no disrespect ,as I love yanks and have lots of friends over there who own guns but a lot of it is down to American machismo, your not a man unless you own a weapon to protect your loved ones, not disimilar to buying a huge V8 truck that does 11 to the gallon then using it to carry three bags of shopping from wal marts.

[littletankman]

Or owning a V8 4X4 in the uk and taking two kids to school 5 mins down the road