World War II was a global conflict that involved almost every nation on the planet. But the effect of the minor conflicts which at the time were overshadowed by the bigger battles wERE not realized at the time. One point is the invasion of Greece by Italy, this caused a delay of 6 weeks the Russian invasion operation Barbarossa. This delay would have far reaching consequence on the Germans ability to defeat Russian forces.
Other actions had similar effect, although at the time this was not evident.Check out the links below and add your point of view about this issue, and perhaps we can all learn more about the War and how our hobby and the real Tanks were used in the conflict.
Saxondog
http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... f=2&t=6404" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... f=2&t=6405" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Events That changed History
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Zen Badger
- Recruit
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:40 am
Re: Events That changed History
Hmmm, the most important battle of the Second World War was the Battle of the Atlantic.
If Germany had been successful in her efforts to stop the US from supplying Britain and the USSR then the outcome would have been much different.
And possesion of two aircraft carriers would not have helped at all. They would have been of little use in interdicting the convoys and in turn would've required diversion of scant resources to protect them from Allied attacks.
The U-boats were the best form of attack the Germans had, they just didn't have enough of them.
If Germany had been successful in her efforts to stop the US from supplying Britain and the USSR then the outcome would have been much different.
And possesion of two aircraft carriers would not have helped at all. They would have been of little use in interdicting the convoys and in turn would've required diversion of scant resources to protect them from Allied attacks.
The U-boats were the best form of attack the Germans had, they just didn't have enough of them.
Re: Events That changed History
it is time that WWII wos liad to rest too many poeple deid in that conphlict
as A persan of 14 yaers old I am sick of haering about WWII and what the nazi poeple of garmeny did toother natoins and creads
as A persan of 14 yaers old I am sick of haering about WWII and what the nazi poeple of garmeny did toother natoins and creads
Re: Events That changed History
XF62 -
You might or might not be right, this is not the place to debate the issues you raise but if it was not for WW2 life would be very different for you today. Much of the technology developed for military purposes during that period makes life safer and more comfortable for you. Though this technology would have been developed anyway, it would have come into use much later and in a much less developed form. I will name a few, but no doubt others will be able to add to the list:
Radar
Cavity Magnetron
Computers
Jet Engine
Rocketry
Nuclear Fission
Penicillin
Start of transistor development (1st transistors available from 1947)
FM Radio
Aircraft navigational beams
Microwave and digital radio transmission technology
Wars or the threat of war drives the development of technology more than anything else. 1939-45 might be nothing more than an unpleasant period of history to you, but I can assure you it will not be forgotten and there is much to learn from it, including the fact that your first language is English, not German. If you ever travel to distant parts of the world, that alone is worth having so please take the trouble to use it correctly.
Peter
You might or might not be right, this is not the place to debate the issues you raise but if it was not for WW2 life would be very different for you today. Much of the technology developed for military purposes during that period makes life safer and more comfortable for you. Though this technology would have been developed anyway, it would have come into use much later and in a much less developed form. I will name a few, but no doubt others will be able to add to the list:
Radar
Cavity Magnetron
Computers
Jet Engine
Rocketry
Nuclear Fission
Penicillin
Start of transistor development (1st transistors available from 1947)
FM Radio
Aircraft navigational beams
Microwave and digital radio transmission technology
Wars or the threat of war drives the development of technology more than anything else. 1939-45 might be nothing more than an unpleasant period of history to you, but I can assure you it will not be forgotten and there is much to learn from it, including the fact that your first language is English, not German. If you ever travel to distant parts of the world, that alone is worth having so please take the trouble to use it correctly.
Peter
Re: Events That changed History
Well put Peter, My intent here is the discussion of military events that influenced the direction of the wars outcome, not politics. We can only learn from History if we understand the issues and their effect. Politics do not enter into the debate here. Zen Badger posted an opinion, point of view or perspective on the battle of the Atlantic that I see differently, but that was me intension to discuss the military events and their influence on the conflict.
I am not writing my opinion, my remarks are taken from published history sources. So let's focus on the military issue and leave politics to other media.
If we consider events then the opening confrontation of the war was called the phony war. Politics failed,the belief that the largest army in Europe the French could contain the Germans lead directly to their defeat. Then the British defeat on European soil, and the German's desire to seek a political solution halted their advance and stabilized the lines of battle. End of politics beginning of Military strategy. So let's debate the military actions and we will I believe be better for it. cheers Saxondog
I am not writing my opinion, my remarks are taken from published history sources. So let's focus on the military issue and leave politics to other media.
If we consider events then the opening confrontation of the war was called the phony war. Politics failed,the belief that the largest army in Europe the French could contain the Germans lead directly to their defeat. Then the British defeat on European soil, and the German's desire to seek a political solution halted their advance and stabilized the lines of battle. End of politics beginning of Military strategy. So let's debate the military actions and we will I believe be better for it. cheers Saxondog
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tankmad
- Warrant Officer 2nd Class
- Posts: 1335
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:02 pm
- Location: glasgow
- Contact:
Re: Events That changed History
You are right Saxondog the six weeks delay in operation Barbarossa was a god send it meant the heavy winter which halted the Germans as much as the Russians would work in our favour. As for this site having nothing to do with WWII that is rubbish most of the tanks that everyone has on here came from WWII.
Stevie
Stevie
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wibblywobbly
- Major
- Posts: 6396
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: South Wales Valley
- Contact:
Re: Events That changed History
I think we should also remember that if it wasn't for WW2, then Heng Long would never have existed! 
Tiger 1 Late
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
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grim_marmazet
- Staff Sergeant
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:45 am
- Location: Uxbridge, London
Re: Events That changed History
George Santayana said "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". For this very reason WWII should be discussed, researched and debated. The men and women who fought and died, should never be forgotten, afterall, they died to defend the freedoms you take for granted today. As Peter rightly said, many of the technologies you use today directly decend from inventions and discoveries made during the war, technologies that you undoubtedly use everyday.XF62 wrote:it is time that WWII wos liad to rest too many poeple deid in that conphlict
as A persan of 14 yaers old I am sick of haering about WWII and what the nazi poeple of garmeny did toother natoins and creads
I am sorry, but as a 'persan' of 14 years old your spelling leaves much to be desired, and doesnt bode well for the education system. Please use a spell checker.
Cheers,
Rik
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wibblywobbly
- Major
- Posts: 6396
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: South Wales Valley
- Contact:
Re: Events That changed History
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Benjamin Franklin.
And an excerpt from one of the most famous addresses to a nation ever made, Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961, a speech that certainly made its mark in history:
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
V.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
VI.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.
VII.
So -- in this my last good night to you as your President -- I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.
You and I -- my fellow citizens -- need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.
To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:
We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.
...prophetic words indeed, that should be heeded by 'persans' everywhere, regardless of 'natoins' or 'creads'.
Herman Goering said, at the Nuremburg Trials
"Why of course the people don't want war, but after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a communist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a fascist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. You just have to tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger"
Better to go through life wanting something you dont have, than having something you dont want.
Benjamin Franklin.
And an excerpt from one of the most famous addresses to a nation ever made, Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961, a speech that certainly made its mark in history:
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.
Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.
Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.
In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.
Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.
It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.
V.
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
VI.
Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.
Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.
Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.
Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.
VII.
So -- in this my last good night to you as your President -- I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.
You and I -- my fellow citizens -- need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.
To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:
We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.
...prophetic words indeed, that should be heeded by 'persans' everywhere, regardless of 'natoins' or 'creads'.
Herman Goering said, at the Nuremburg Trials
"Why of course the people don't want war, but after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a communist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a fascist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. You just have to tell them that they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for a lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger"
Better to go through life wanting something you dont have, than having something you dont want.
Tiger 1 Late
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Re: Events That changed History
Thanks Wibbly,the very core of the results of WWII and the political solution of the cold war and it's implementation by the political powers of the time.The United States of America have now the largest fleet of aircraft carriers in the world,we have 12 Nimitz class or as the newest are described 21first century ships. And are well suited to this description.They keep the peace through overwhelming force. But do to the Freedom of our people these are used for peace by discouraging war.This is only possible by the fact they are crewed by volunteers.
The price of Freedom, Liberty and Prosperity require the common man to take the time to do the one thing only found in a free society.Volunteer for military service. This and the Government by the People has always been the Identity of Freedom,the core of free people willing to give all to support and ensure that the people remain the core of a free nation.By the people being free.
And understanding that freedom comes not from men but from a higher power, incorruptible,and unchanging through time. But now in this world we are faced with many in power who believe they are not given the power but create it by their own self worth, or the simple term ARROGANCE.
Why are these people of this frame of mind? They did not study,understand or consider History and the lessons of History.So they repeat the mistakes. The USA will decide in 24hrs weather we apply the lessons of History or repeat the mistakes and become a Socialist country. Never has a Socialist Government made the people free or prosperous.
That's why here on this forum we need not debate politics, but debate History and learn from it. We build the machines,we discuss the battles, we debate the outcome and the influence nothing more. That is my purpose in writing these articles about the different episodes of WWII.
Saxondog
The price of Freedom, Liberty and Prosperity require the common man to take the time to do the one thing only found in a free society.Volunteer for military service. This and the Government by the People has always been the Identity of Freedom,the core of free people willing to give all to support and ensure that the people remain the core of a free nation.By the people being free.
And understanding that freedom comes not from men but from a higher power, incorruptible,and unchanging through time. But now in this world we are faced with many in power who believe they are not given the power but create it by their own self worth, or the simple term ARROGANCE.
Why are these people of this frame of mind? They did not study,understand or consider History and the lessons of History.So they repeat the mistakes. The USA will decide in 24hrs weather we apply the lessons of History or repeat the mistakes and become a Socialist country. Never has a Socialist Government made the people free or prosperous.
That's why here on this forum we need not debate politics, but debate History and learn from it. We build the machines,we discuss the battles, we debate the outcome and the influence nothing more. That is my purpose in writing these articles about the different episodes of WWII.
Saxondog
