Pictures of new hl KT

[bubbajoexx]

Very interesting, what are the differences between the two King Tigers other than the turret?

Sax

turret and shot gard ring and rear air vent screens only as they where built on the same henschel hull

[littletankman]

Hi

Quote ' The Ferdinand was Porsche's attempt at the Tiger I contract wrong the ferdinand or elaphant was a tiger 2 by porsche there where 10 chassis made the tiger 1 chassis by porsche was used on this gun carrier The original VK3001(H) was an early trial version for the Tiger I. '


I always thought like Mart that the Ferdinand used the failed Porsche Tiger1 chassis and changed to the Elefant when they were re furbished . They also added the bow MG and the gun shield was turened the other way ?

You learn something new everyday
Andy

[Woz]

The Elephant/Ferdinand was converted from Porsches Tiger 1 Prototype. Porsche was that so confident that he would win the contract that he started production and had made 50 before Henschel won the contract.

The Elephant was German way of making use of the 50 hulls they had.

The VK3001 (Leopard) was porsche's own design for a 30ton tank that was never put into production and the two prototypes were converted.

[bubbajoexx]

http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~turcot/Armour/pz5.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the 4501 P and 4502 P where the same chassis as porsche used the same chassis for both proto types

[Woz]

Your link says

"Once again, Henschel and Porsche were ordered to develop the new vehicle. Porsche provided two projects that were based on the previous VK 4501(P) design** and were designated VK4502(P).*** The first one, Typ 180 (Turm Vorne) A/B, had its turret mounted centrally, while Typ 181 (Turm Hinten) A/B/C, had its turret mounted in the rear with a mid-mounted engine (similar in layout to the modern Israeli Merkava main battle tanks). Both designs shared the same chassis and hull, along with all the other components and gasoline-electric system of VK4501(P). Both designs were extremely similar, with the only difference being the location of the turret and some mechanical components. Only wooden mock-ups were produced. ****"


** VK 4501(P) was the Tiger 1 design (which became the Elephant/Ferdinand)
***VK4502(P) was the Tiger II design.
**** VK4502(P) hulls were never built only the turrets.

[bubbajoexx]

Your link says

"Once again, Henschel and Porsche were ordered to develop the new vehicle. Porsche provided two projects that were based on the previous VK 4501(P) design** and were designated VK4502(P).*** The first one, Typ 180 (Turm Vorne) A/B, had its turret mounted centrally, while Typ 181 (Turm Hinten) A/B/C, had its turret mounted in the rear with a mid-mounted engine (similar in layout to the modern Israeli Merkava main battle tanks). Both designs shared the same chassis and hull, along with all the other components and gasoline-electric system of VK4501(P). Both designs were extremely similar, with the only difference being the location of the turret and some mechanical components. Only wooden mock-ups were produced. ****"


** VK 4501(P) was the Tiger 1 design (which became the Elephant/Ferdinand)
***VK4502(P) was the Tiger II design.
**** VK4502(P) hulls were never built only the turrets.

it all depends on what books you read in the porsche diary it is the 4502 that was used after conversion and others state the 4501 but if you look close at the elephant the rear plate is sloped as the 4502 was. there is not much accuracy when it comes to porsche prototypes as they where not well recieved by hitler and his staff

[Woz]

The 4501 had a sloped rear plate (look at the pictures I posted above).

The 4502 was never built, there's lots of design drawings for it but they never actualy built one. The only part of the 4502 they did build was the turrets. (even the link you posted says that).

I've got loads of books on Tiger, Elephants/Ferdinands and they all say that the 4501's were used to make the Elephants.

Porshes made 50 of his Tigers (4501) because he was confident he'd win the contract but he didn't. As the Germans were short of armour they converted the 4501's into the Ferdinand "Tank Destroyer"

[xrad]

Just adding a little...

Something like fifty or so Ferdinands were gathered up after disaster at Kursk and shipped back home. Then converted with upgrades into elephants. And I think there are even a few pics of refurbished elephants with a large rear hatch...the final product based on the porsche hull

[Woz]

They were all built on Porsche hulls.

The Ferdinand wasn't a tank that had been planned. It only came about because Porsche had built 50 hulls for his (failed) Tiger project and the German army wanted to find a use for them.

Once the original 50 were converted they didn't produce any more. So every time one was lost (destroyed/captured) it wasn't replaced.