I propose to model a King Tiger of the SS Panzer Battalion No 501 (This battalion was present in the Ardennes campaign) The model I propose to build is King Tiger No 312. I have three pictures of this tank all which are in books and some of the detailing in these photos are unclear. The shipped dates of the the tanks for SS501 were as follows:- 11no between 28th Sept to 3rd Oct 44 (These were originally allocated to the 509 but were given to the SS501) 14no between 17th Oct to 11th Nov 44 and 20no between 26th Nov to 3rd Dec 44. the above information comes from Thomas L.Jentz Tiger 1 and 2 Combat Tactics. The two questions are as follows:- 1) The pictures I have clearly show the jack block but I am unable to see if the brackets holding the jack are there: (Starting in October 44 the brackets for the jack were no longer wielded to the tank because the jacks were no longer issued). 2) By October 44 additional fuel vent lines were added so that all seven fuel tanks could be vented and not just the four which were catered for in a modification done back in April 44) These modification come from a tiger tank book called VK45.02 to Tiger 2 Design, Production and Modifications by Thomas L. Jentz and Hilary L. Doyle. My proposal is that as I can see the jack block I will put the brackets for the jack on the tank. With regards to the fuel vent system pipes I cannot see any evidence that these pipes were extended to cover the forward fuel tanks so I intend to miss this modification off. As I have said before, my pictures that I have access to are not very good. So if someone knows differently please let me know I would be very grateful. All comments gratefully received. Thank you.
Kind regards John
Tiger 2
Forum rules
If your question is electronics related please post it in one of the relevant boards here: viewforum.php?f=31
If your question is electronics related please post it in one of the relevant boards here: viewforum.php?f=31
Re: Tiger 2
Looking at my copy of "Duel in the Mist 3", they suggest that it "probably" came from the batch of 11 tanks taken over from the 509th. If this was true it would make it a vehicle manufactured probably in August, given the typical time taken from a tank being manufactured, to delivery to the end user. They also note that the paint scheme appears to be factory sprayed, but not the standardised scheme introduced at the end of September 1944.
I also notice in one of the 2 photo's of the vehicle, there does not appear to be a seperate edge to the numbers, which makes me wonder if they were painted in plan yellow like 222? Greg Walden's book only has the earlier picture of it abandoned from the National Archives, where as DitM3 has a photo taken closer up a few days later, which Greg Walden may not have had access to?
I also notice in one of the 2 photo's of the vehicle, there does not appear to be a seperate edge to the numbers, which makes me wonder if they were painted in plan yellow like 222? Greg Walden's book only has the earlier picture of it abandoned from the National Archives, where as DitM3 has a photo taken closer up a few days later, which Greg Walden may not have had access to?
Re: Tiger 2
Thank you for your response particularly what you are saying about the turret number, because according to SS Panzer battalion 501 Tigers in the Ardennes by Huges Wenkin and Christian Dujardin the turret numbers for the 3rd company was in theory meant to be Blue with a yellow border. and the second company turret markings were in theory black with white boarder. they have the 1st company down in theory with yellow/orange with grey boarder and the command tanks as yellow ochre with grey boarder but the book does say in theory so I wonder if they got this correct?
Re: Tiger 2
sorry didn't mean to post this twice still getting use to the website
Re: Tiger 2
Who knows? 222 was definitly not black on white, that much is clear from the many photos and movie footage. Who's to say that it wasn't the only exception?
I found a comment in Walden's book where he quotes a 1970's article by the former curator of the APG museum discussing 312 and saying the numbers were the same as 332, but did he just base this on the black and white NARA photo and the tank in his possession?
Perhaps if somebody else has DitM3, they can take a look and offer their opinion (Pages 264 and 265)? Looking at the 2 pictures, I could certainly see an argument that maybe the paint has deteriorated rapidly over the winter? Photo's of 332 and 334 show a very definite 2 colour number, there might be the remains of an edge around the numbers in the picture on p264, but the paint looks darker and more uniform on p265 (even allowing for different camera, time, etc).
An intersting thing to consider with 222 (as an example), the postwar (summer 1945) photo's show a Balkenkreuz behind the numerals (this is also in the Peddinghaus decal set), but the contemporary images do not show it - clearly the paint that the 501's workshop unit used to cover it over when applying the turret number didn't survive the war.
I found a comment in Walden's book where he quotes a 1970's article by the former curator of the APG museum discussing 312 and saying the numbers were the same as 332, but did he just base this on the black and white NARA photo and the tank in his possession?
Perhaps if somebody else has DitM3, they can take a look and offer their opinion (Pages 264 and 265)? Looking at the 2 pictures, I could certainly see an argument that maybe the paint has deteriorated rapidly over the winter? Photo's of 332 and 334 show a very definite 2 colour number, there might be the remains of an edge around the numbers in the picture on p264, but the paint looks darker and more uniform on p265 (even allowing for different camera, time, etc).
An intersting thing to consider with 222 (as an example), the postwar (summer 1945) photo's show a Balkenkreuz behind the numerals (this is also in the Peddinghaus decal set), but the contemporary images do not show it - clearly the paint that the 501's workshop unit used to cover it over when applying the turret number didn't survive the war.
Re: Tiger 2
Thank you for your for this information there is quite a lot to consider particularly about turret number painting. Originally I thought I had done some good research on my tiger, but you guys or on another level 'Brilliant' really appreciate this.
