65th Anniversay of Op Market Garden

[Crispy]

Just realised it was 65 years ago today that Market Garden was launched. Havent heard or seen anything in the media about it but then I've been out all day. It seem's the less successful operations dont get a mention regardless of the efforts and lives lost. I guess Katie Price's latest shag is more interesting to the public these days.

Jeeze I'm turning into my dad 

So anyway, Im defo putting A Bridge Too Far on when I get home tonight!

[vonrundstedt]

I guess Katie Price's latest shag is more interesting to the public these days.

LOL. My wife's watching that tonight!!!! I am suprised nothings been mentioned in the media?

[thecommandernj]

Just realised it was 65 years ago today that Market Garden was launched. Havent heard or seen anything in the media about it but then I've been out all day. It seem's the less successful operations dont get a mention regardless of the efforts and lives lost. I guess Katie Price's latest shag is more interesting to the public these days.

Jeeze I'm turning into my dad 

So anyway, Im defo putting A Bridge Too Far on when I get home tonight!

    The public at large has a very short memory. If asked most would answer that Market Garden pertains to grocery shopping for green salads not an illadvised major offensive that was intended to shorten WW II.  Thank you to all Vets who served for the Allies.

[edelweiss3945]

its not just the public guys.... its the educational system..... history is so important and always underestimated!! 

[STEINER]

I have a friend in the Dutch air force, I stayed in Holland with him in 91. He took me to Arnhem bridge and the Airborne forces cemetery at Osterbeek. The Polish Airborne dead lie in one side of the cemetery along with the British dead. It was a very humbling experience to visit that site. The grounds are very well looked after by the Dutch, and my friend told me that without fail, every year on the anniversary of the battle, Dutch school children lay flowers on the graves of the fallen and are taught about the battle. I also visited the Hartenstein Hotel, which is now an excellent Airborne museum.  If I remember rightly he also said that every year on the anniversary, the paras make a drop on the DZ that they used. Ginkel Heath I think it was called.

Yes, we owe them a great debt.

[thecommandernj]

its not just the public guys.... its the educational system..... history is so important and always underestimated!! 

How true....
  With so many liberal pansies teaching our kids, it is no surprise. WW II shaped the modern world more than any other event in the last 100 years. None of us RC tankers are war mongers. These events do facinate us. But we do enjoy history and learing from our elders so that the same political mistakes of the 20th century will not be repeated in the 21 century. Since the US was not invaded or bombed like the UK and most of Continental Europe, we in the US have little appreciation and understanding of how many suffered in the ETO and the Pacific theater. The most significant denial of historical facts is found in Japan. Many atrocities and masacres like the rape of Nanking are never taught or mentioned in their history classes. As for the wholesale rape and kidnapping of refugee females they only say "The women went with the men(soldiers)". The internet is a great tool for the youth to learn upon. Lets shed more light on the past and learn for the future.

**I often use this notable quotation from George Santayana:
'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'
Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, Scribner's, 1905

I'll bet off my soapbox now.    Bob  thecommandernj

PS  Crispy, I bet your Dad was a hell of a great guy. My dad was in the Army and stationed in Germany in France after WW II. He took me to see Kellys Heroes and Patton in the movies as a kid in NYC. He never let an opportunity to teach me about history slip by. He has been gone 25 years now and my sisters tell me I sound like Dad all the time. I'm sure he is smiling up there....

[Crispy]

Yep thecommandernj, They sound pretty similar. Im sad to hear yours isnt with us anymore.

My father was 11 years old in 1939 so you can imagine what a huge effect it had on his life. I've always thought it must've been the perfect age to be at that time, getting the excitement without being old enough to fully appreciate the horrors going on around you. Maybe thats why until recently whenever I'd visit him we'd always end up taking about the war. I suppose thats where my interest was sparked originally, all his stories and memories. It was nice to have a shared interest and swap books.

He lived in Croydon throughout the war and still lives there today. He'd talk about his shrapnel collection and watching the docklands fires (over 10 miles away) lighting up the sky during the blitz. He has some pretty good tales to tell, many from a child's perspective such as when a large gasometer (thats a huge gas storage tank the size of a 5/6 story building) just down the road was hit in an air raid. He describes it as looking like an huge firework going up and you could feel the heat on your face 1/4 mile away. The following day they found all the hedges on the estate had been scorched and there where little balls of metal everywhere from the molten metal raining down. Digging anderson shelters in the garden and watching the fighters taking off from Croydon Airport (then the largest airport in England). Spitfires, Hurricanes and Me109's dogfighting right over head, leaving contrails in the sky and cheering when a German plane was shot down. My uncle claims he was chased and strafed by a German plane while on his bike... but he does has a habit for telling whoppers  ::)

Croydon is 10 miles south of London on the path to the coast so it caught a lot for bombing, V1's & V2's. He'd describe the drone of the V1 doodlebugs as they buzzed over head, saying you only got worried when the engine cut out. He still has a newspaper cutting of the time showing a V1 technical diagram.

My dad wasnt 18 until 1946 so missed the war but did his 2 years national service in the pay corps rising to Sergeant. He was due to be sent to the Middle East just before the 1947 revolt there. Fortunately (for me I guess) he was recalled for compassionate leave as his mother was terminally ill. Funny how things turn out.

Unfortunately these last few years he's suffered badly from dementia so he's isnt quite the same guy I grew up with. I wished I'd nagged him more to write up all his great memories while he still could.

He also thought the lack for any WW2 teaching in school was appalling. I never received any during my whole 14 years in education (other than an art history teacher bitching about the RAF destroying some important work of art in Dresden  ::)) Apparently it was more important to learn about Roman soldiers, dinosaurs, cavemen, rainforests, medieval kings & queens.... but not WW2. For such an important event that has shaped our current lives, it was totally overlooked.

You mentioned Japanese denial... i have a related story. I work for a vehicle breakdown company and occasionally we get days out to the manufactures head offices. Its mostly a rather dull half day of "history of the company" follwed after lunch by a chance to drive the car, obviously what everyone has gone for . Mitsubishi followed the norm and was telling us how their company came about (strangely skipping over the mid 1930's - mid 1940's... funny that) and that they dont just make cars. The guy giving the lecture tried to get us to name some other well know products that they make. Now I dont know about you guys or where you live but in the UK they're only really know for cars, so we sat there like a bunch of frightened school kids too nervous to talk. But the guy just wouldnt let it go and refused to move on until one of us came up with the goods. It was getting pretty uncomfortable so i put my hand up (he siged with relief) and said the only other Mitsubishi that came to mind.... "Err well there's the Mitsubishi Zero..... You know the WW2 fighter plane.... they were pretty good weren't they..."  :-[ The guy visibly went ridged, turned purple and I seriously believe if i hadnt been surrounded by 20 work colleagues I would have disappeared that day and never been seen again  Its nice to know I did my part 

Sorry for the ramble but thats today's lesson folks, dont take your parents for granted, they wont be there forever.

[BREL]

loved the bit about the Jap going purple, when the Mitsubishi Zero was mentioned

[thecommandernj]

loved the bit about the Jap going purple, when the Mitsubishi Zero was mentioned

Cheers BREL & Crispy!!!  Let em have it boys..... make them squirm. 
      The BMW emblem is that of the the blue and white propeler against the sky. The made great war plane motors but few people know about that. Krupp in now famous for coffee makers, not 88s and steel for tanks. Thanks for sharing the story on your Dad. Mine served in the Korean war but they decided since he spoke German that he would be better in Europe than Korea. Lucky for me too.
                                                                          Bob  thecommanderwpd

[Crispy]

More useless motor industry information...

Did you know the 3 pointed Mercedes star has 3 points for Air, Sea & Land. When they started out in the early 1900's they were thinking ahead to what they could use their engines for. They even had a forth point for a while representing Space.... (think this was before WW1!) Now thats what you call forward thinking 

Their head office talk also glossed over the 1930's - 1940s. Im told Porsche were the same. I dont know why they dont just bite the bullet and talk about what they did during the war. They all made great engineering developments. Most of us tankers would recognise Maybech engines right? I mean Warner von Brahn wasnt exactly a recluse when he got to the USA was he.

If you're interested in classic cars Mercedes World (cheesy name I know) is a good day out in SE England near Weybridge. Its based in the grounds of the old Brooklands motor racing circuit. As well as the museum like displays inside they have driving lessons for kids, an off road course for adults, a handling track to get to know some advanced driving techniques and a skid pan. I had my instructor trying to get me power sliding around their 60ft diameter skid pan in a CL500! Not bad for a days work, i guess my job isnt all bad 

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/MBWorldBrooklands.flash.nowelcome.html?csref=mbuk_en_mbw_googleppc_mercedes_world_brooklands_181108

Its also right next to the Brooklands museum (famous for being the first purpose built banked racing circuit in the world) which has many classic motor racing cars, bikes and aircraft on display. The circuit was also used as a fighter base during WW2. It still has areas of the banked racing circuit left. Definately a good day out.

http://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/