A day late but 82 years ago was the Battle of Midway

[michaelwhittmann]

You could make a case that w/o the American victory at Midway; D Day would not have happened.
Or at the least it would have been substantially delayed.

What ramifications would that of had?

[Son of a gun-ner]

You could make a case that w/o the American victory at Midway; D Day would not have happened.
Or at the least it would have been substantially delayed.

What ramifications would that of had?

Why? D Day was planned month's, even years ahead, it was already delayed by bad weather, nothing going on in the Pacific was going to stop or delay D Day, the powers that be at the time were already committed to an all out mainland Europe invasion, because the plan always was to stop Hitler first and not let Russia get all the spoils.
The butterfly effect is only a theory, and falling trees still make a sound.

[Tiger6]

on a practical level, probably not a lot. Port Moresby might have fallen, taking New Guinea with it, but what then? The Japanese fleet didn't have the necessary fleet oiler capacity to push any further west, nor support an invasion of Australia. The USN would have fallen back to Pearl and conducted a holding action similar to the Royal Navy in the Indian ocean, and waited for the great Essex class swarm to assemble.

[michaelwhittmann]

If Enterprise, Hornet, and Yorktown were lost at Midway, the US would only have 1 fleet carrier left in the Pacific (Wasp). The Japanese would have 6. Hawaii invasion??? Seattle bombed??? FDR would have been under intense political pressure to defend the West Coast.
Maybe no Germany first.

[Tiger6]

You are ignoring the fact that the Japanese fleet was barely able to reach Hawaii to bomb it in a surprise attack. They were simply unable to get a fleet all the way to the west coast. Similarly they could not hope to mount a sustained invasion of Hawaii (and/or Australia) because of their lack of the required logistics chain to support this. Hawaii would have become a hornets nest had the battle of Midway been lost. Land troops in Darwin, and then what? You are going to have to cross vast swaths of empty country to get to the next major settlement, and you are going to have to carry all of your food and water with you because there isn't much of anything to be had locally!

The Japanese plan relied on Britain and America negotiating peace after getting a bloody nose in early 1942. If this did not happen then, as Adm. Yamamoto correctly predicted, they would get crushed by the industrial might of the US.

The war would have gone on a couple of years longer, millions more would have died (especially in China and India), but once US industry got going there was never any doubt in the final outcome. The only major difference would have been that Japan would probably have been hit with more nuclear weapons once the US got in range instead of the conventional bombing campaign that was actually mounted.

Finally, your assumption of the IJN getting out of Midway with all 6 carriers is a considerable stretch. They never managed to grasp damage control, and had failed to learn from their losses like the USN did after the loss of Lexington at Coral Sea. In reality neither Hornet nor Yorktown were sunk by the air attacks that crippled them (Hornet was scuttled by the Japanese after refusing to sink, Yorktown was torpedo'd while under tow). Looking at the cause of loss for pretty much all Japanese carriers, you will find massive aviation fuel explosions and/or poor damage control listed as the reason they sank.

[jarndice]

If Enterprise, Hornet, and Yorktown were lost at Midway, the US would only have 1 fleet carrier left in the Pacific (Wasp). The Japanese would have 6. Hawaii invasion??? Seattle bombed??? FDR would have been under intense political pressure to defend the West Coast.
Maybe no Germany first.

America could and did replace Yorktown soon after its loss and then continued making many more,
Japanese industry did not have the industrial ability to replace all 4 carriers that they lost nor could it replace the well trained aircrews who perished in that battle,
Both Germany and Japan massivily underrated the industrial capacity of the USA and the fighting guts and adaptabilty of the American fighting man,
When Mr Hitler declared war on the USA on the 11th December 1941 in support of the Tripartite treaty he with that one declaration lost WW2.

[HERMAN BIX]

Lets tread carefully on this subject folks................remember that this place is a non-political RC Tank discussion platform, not really a place to project the theoretical outcomes of a World War and its aftermath.


Need I remind ? on the 80th anniversary of D-day............

Lest We Forget.

[ColemanCollector]

In my son's grade 10 history class, after finishing the section on the Second World War, the teacher asked them to write a short essay on what event they thought lead to the Allied victory overall.

Teacher received the usual responses:Battle of Britain/no invasion of the UK, Pearl Harbor, bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, DDay, Barbarossa, etc.

My son's response--Germany being drawn into Africa to bail out the Italians. The teacher was kind of stunned since they barely mentioned that theatre in the class. My son's logic was several German generals pulled into it when they would've been more valuable elsewhere, resources drawn away, men drawn away, design and industrial output hampered by tropical mods to aircraft and AFVs, German/Italian relations strained, Allied morale boost as the campaign wore on, etc.

Teacher gave it an A+ and wrote, "One of the best shoulda-coulda-woulda's I've read. I don't think you're correct, but I like your argument!"

Mike.

[michaelwhittmann]

I'm glad for your son though I don't necessarily agree. I'm sure he may a cogent, thoughtful argument.
Hence the A+.

I would love to explain but I have been told to tread carefully.

I don't want a dishonorable discharge.

[ColemanCollector]

Meh. They're all just Butterfly of Doom arguments that go round and round towards nowhere.

Mike.