1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

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lmcq11
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by lmcq11 »

According to my calculations, the upper hull should be at 71mm from the ground to the bottom of the mud guards, all around.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
10.JPG (1.18 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

This is the Takom final drive assembly. I tried to use it but it does not fit the Tamiya chassis.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
11.JPG (1.33 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

After cleaning up the interior of the Takom part, i tried everyting but it does not go all the way, the shape is too different (arrow 1 and 2) than the chassis, and the gearbox is in the way, creating upward pressure (arrow 3) and distorting the plastic part.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
12.JPG (1.49 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

It is also too narrow, missing 0.5mm on both sides to match the Tamiya chassis.

Notice i had to trim the fenders support at the front to make the Takom upper hull fit.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
13.JPG (1.24 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

There is no easy way to make the Takom final drive assembly fit the Tamiya chassis without major surgery on the metal and gearbox of the chassis, which is not worth it. Something has to give. I decided to reuse the Tamiya part for this build.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
14.JPG (553.93 KiB) Viewed 1728 times

The main structural parts at the rear of the upper hull were assembled. The fit was good but not excellent, much dry fitting required and some adjustments were necessary.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
15.JPG (1.47 MiB) Viewed 1728 times
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
16.JPG (1.65 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

Can't stop noticing how detailed the Takom Sherman is. Just look at the markings next to every maintenance cap.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
17.JPG (1.09 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

The Son of Sherman book is essential for such build, if it is just to make sense of all the Sherman variants and what we are dealing with here. This book is highly recommended as it contains tons of essential info on all the areas of the Sherman variants. A new 2 book edition just came out but can't find it yet.

From what i can see, this is the Tamiya upper hull.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
17a.JPG (1.47 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

And this is the Takom upper hull for the Korean war version, everything so far on the kit seems to fit this image. Technically, both Tamiya and Takom upper hulls should be very similar except for the rear deck, or so it seems...

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
17b.JPG (1.42 MiB) Viewed 1728 times

Continuing on following post.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by lmcq11 »

See how different the two chassis are in reality regarding the glacis inclinations, hull height and length, but they should be similar except the engine top.

After verifications, the Takom upper hull is the one that is accurate. We've been living with a really inaccurate Tamiya Sherman upper hull for 50 years.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
18.JPG (2.66 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

Upper hull side by side at the back, see differences in back plate angle and lenght of the hull. However, the chassis are pretty much the same lenght, i have not noticed any difference.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
19.JPG (1.03 MiB) Viewed 1725 times
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
20.JPG (1.66 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

Upper hull height, the Tamiya is at least 2mm higher, its apparent.

Notice the inward curve on the Takom upper hull, a nasty issue on a critical part that Takom/AHHQ should look at correcting, or really bad reviews will come up. Or maybe it is a production issue not affecting all kits, who knows.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
21.JPG (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

The Takom glacis is at a 47 degree angle (from a strait up line at 90 degrees), and exactly as it should be according to Son of Sherman. The Tamiya glacis is about 3 degree more, close to 50 degrees.


1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
22.JPG (2.51 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

Trimmed, the Takom side transmission covers can easily be reused, and are looking good. I used to purchase these on the market, no more.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
23.JPG (668.76 KiB) Viewed 1725 times

After installing the Tamiya final assembly, minus the top connecting part, the sides need to be trimmed to match the metal chassis, the transmission side covers are added, and the missing curve at the top of the unit needs to be scratch built as per reference, which will match the Takom part shape, otherwise there will be a gap with the upper hull on both sides of the middle slot.

Lots of dry fitting is required before adding the top part on the final drive assembly, i lowered it a bit, it was too high. I did not put the 2 screws at the top, they were in the way and were distorting the top, which must be flat. Instead of the screws, the final drive assembly is lightly glued in place along the metal edges. In case of heavy maintenance that would require a change of gearbox or else, it can still be removed, but i am not planning to for years to come.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
24.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

The Tamiya metal fender supports were trimmed to fit the Takom upper hull, sliding perfectly in place.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
25.JPG (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

Looking at the back, it is clearer now how longer the Takom upper hull is compared to the Tamiya, there is a 7.5mm gap between the Tamiya chassis and the Takom upper hull. Not really an issue here but it shows how short the Tamiya upper hull is.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
26.JPG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1725 times

Upper hull positioned in place, looking good.

This is a critical step, the integration to the Tamiya chassis works so far and will create a much more accurate Sherman. The other big step will be the conversion of the Takom turret to RC and adding turret rotation with the upper hull, likely easier than on a Nick Aguilar resin turret, we'll see. The rest of the build will then be mostly cosmetics with some electronic gizmos here and there.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
27.JPG (855.41 KiB) Viewed 1725 times

Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:52 pm, edited 24 times in total.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by lmcq11 »

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
28.JPG (1.32 MiB) Viewed 1724 times
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
29.JPG (1.15 MiB) Viewed 1724 times

These brackets are not just for the look, they actually help keep the thin mud guards in place, and are superbly well detailed.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
30.JPG (1.28 MiB) Viewed 1724 times

Cast texture will be added later to the final drive assembly.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
31.JPG (836.38 KiB) Viewed 1724 times

The model as it stands today.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
32.JPG (1.67 MiB) Viewed 1724 times

Next step, the back plate.

Regards,

Louis
Last edited by lmcq11 on Thu Dec 21, 2023 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by Kaczor »

lmcq11 wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:44 pmThe Son of Sherman book is essential for such build, if it is just to make sense of all the Sherman variants and what we are dealing with here. This book is highly recommended as it contains tons of essential info on all the areas of the Sherman variants. A new 2 book edition just came out but can't find it yet.
The policy of this publishing house is incomprehensible to me. They publish fantastic books in very limited numbers, available only in pre-order. And then you can find them, for example, on ebay at absurd prices.

PS. As usual, your report is very detailed and full of great photos.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by Herr Dr. Professor »

Here's the best I understand about the book situation here in the U.S. As most on RCTW likely already know, the publisher of the original Son of Sherman went out of business before the second volume could be finished. David Doyle is behind the two-volume revision. Unfortunately, in the 1980s, US tax policy changed so that book publishers are taxed in a fiscal year on their unsold inventory. Hence, publishers--especially small businesses--have to sell new books quickly before the fiscal year tax time comes. This might be one factor causing Mr. and Mrs. Doyle (yep, a total of two, a true "mom and pop" operation) to sell inventory as quickly as they are able, especially with pre-sales.
Of course, eBay sales are subject to gouging, even though I have found many, many sellers to be quite fair. I do have the original Son of Sherman, and I nonetheless did pre-order the new set. But, then, I do suffer from some hobby addictions... :/

It goes without saying that I am absolutely amazed by Louis's work here. Go, man, go!
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Thank you Kaczor and Herr Professor,
Yep, its not just the price, the shipping on such large and heavy books will be very expensive as well for international customers. I hope to see the new edition on Amazon... probably in my dreams.



The following two posts are for the back plate.

As you can see, at this time, i am concentrating on the structural components. The small or fragile parts will only be added towards the end of the build because they would otherwise be damaged during the construction phase.


These are some of the main parts for the back plate.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1.JPG (455.42 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

I was in shock when i noticed that the two idler adjusters are exactly the same. On all my previous Sherman builds, i always had a different left and right side idler adjuster.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
2.JPG (620.32 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

After some research, the Son of Sherman book thankfully indicated that as part of a wartime economy measure, it was decided to have a single part designed that can be used on left or right sides on late model Shermans. This information avoided an unwarranted online complaint...

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
3.JPG (597.15 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

The Tamiya chassis has a two part unrealistic Idler adjuster. The metal section won't get changed on this build but the plastic section will be replaced by the Takom half that shows on the back plate.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
4.JPG (581.69 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

The Takom exhaust pipes are in two parts and are hollow. It is perfect to drill the bottom and add a tube for the connection with the smoke unit. The Trumpeter exhausts pipes are not so well designed and make using a smoker more complicated.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
5.JPG (568.5 KiB) Viewed 1631 times
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
6.JPG (2.74 MiB) Viewed 1631 times

The Tamiya back plate was previously cleaned up of all features. To my surprise, when i removed the Tamiya engine hatch, the previous builder had engraved the words " F*** Y** " on the metal back plate under the hatch. I guess he must have foreseen that someone would be stripping apart his work a decade later. I never thought about leaving such message to a future generation so this was weird. I scratched it but realized afterwards that i should have left it there as part of history.

With so many holes and after i drilled two more for the exhaust pipes, i decided the back plate had had enough so i applied a 1mm plasticard layer over the whole thing to cover the mess. This affected the size of the back area but the whole build actually does the same, so no big deal.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
7.JPG (1.22 MiB) Viewed 1631 times

Takom back plate is in position. Adjustments are required to fit it in place, the Tamiya lower back plate is a bit narrower and it takes some efforts with the 1mm plasticard plate mentioned above to position the Takom plate at the proper height, with the realization that the Tamiya idler adjuster arms are not at a realistic height themselves. I had to play with the side screws and holes of the idler adjusters to put them a bit higher to help me here. I would have liked to replace the Tamiya idler adjuster mechanism by a metal MATO adjusters, but as indicated above, the idler adjusters on late model Shermans are different that previous versions.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
8.JPG (821.01 KiB) Viewed 1631 times

The inside of the Takom idler adjusters are hollowed, but needed some trimming so that they can be overlayed on top of the Tamiya idler arms.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
9.JPG (1.65 MiB) Viewed 1631 times

The plastic section of the idler adjusters are in position, and looking good, hiding the Tamiya idler arms very well. Just make sure to install the tracks and adjust them before so that you are sure there is enough space in between the plastic and metal arms to adjust the tracks.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
10.JPG (1.31 MiB) Viewed 1631 times

continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by tankme »

I did get a hold of the two volume version if anyone needs anything specific looked up. I didn't get it for the pre-order price, but I figured $280 shipped was less than I could sell it for later if needed. Just makes me wonder why Doyle wouldn't "sell" a bunch of inventory to like Amazon, Barnes & Nobel, etc. Then he wouldn't have that much inventory to be taxed on. To me that tax issue is a big excuse for poor planning, but of course that's just my humble opinion. I'm sure doing one big run of books is cheaper than doing multiple runs.

Back to Louis' build...I bought one of these AHHQ Shermans and maybe someday...somewhere...somehow...I might actually build it so this thread will be great. :)
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by lmcq11 »

To complete the structure of the exhaust area and fill the gaps created by the use of the Tamiya chassis, i decided to transpose the required Takom rear section on both sides to the model, including the horizontal plate not shown here.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
11.JPG (1.5 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

I found that there is a lot of fishy stuff going on with the Takom parts (ie how do you open the hatch with that large bolt head in front of it... and the horizontal plate barely clears the exhaust) but i managed to cut, trim and put them on the Tamiya chassis, including the extension to the fender supports to close the gap shown yesterday. It not an area that attracks a lot of attention anyway and most of it will be hidden by the exhaust diffuserd. No issue.

Again, small parts will be added later.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
12.JPG (1.44 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

I added reinforcements for the fender suppport extensions using scrap plasticard. Its above and inside, it won't show.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
13.JPG (2.44 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

Remaining is the hole where the exhaust diffusers are located.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
14.JPG (1.83 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

The Takom/AHHQ instructions are again extremely unclear. There is actually an important choice to be made here by the builder between WW2 and post war exhaust diffuser type, with not a single word of explanation about anything. This is unacceptable.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
15.JPG (2.12 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

I figured the top one must be the one used in the Korean war, because i saw the other one used during WW2...

And it is also very unclear how to attach the exhaust diffusers to the chassis. In any cases, it looks like a very weak attachment method. I will think of something better, while keeping the upper hull removable. I better save this for later as i need to detail the back plate first, and then not risk having the diffuser in the way or falling apart during the build.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
16.JPG (2.25 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

In order for the smoke to be properly diffused... i will have to remove the solid back plate of the diffusers to allow the smoke to go through the blades, not a big problem. I will deal with the diffusers later.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
17.JPG (1.26 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

The model as it stands today. I am still questioning myself if i will keep the Tamiya plastic T-80 tracks, replace them by more expensive ones in metal, or cheaper M-26 metal tracks with open guide pins. Looks like the tracks will run well, but they look so plastic.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
18.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1628 times
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
19.JPG (1.09 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

The rear mud guards will also be added later.

1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build
20.JPG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1628 times

As i want to tackle all the critical components first, the next step will be the turret.

Regards, Louis
Last edited by lmcq11 on Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by Kaczor »

lmcq11 wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:33 pm . To my surprise, when i removed the Tamiya engine hatch, the previous builder had engraved the words " F*** Y** " on the metal back plate under the hatch. I guess he must have foreseen that someone would be stripping apart his work a decade later. I never thought about leaving such message to a future generation so this was weird. I scratched it but realized afterwards that i should have left it there.
"Kilroy was here" iwould have more class :D
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Re: 1/16 RC M4A3E8 Korean war - Restoring Tamiya M4 with Takom kit - build

Post by Herr Dr. Professor »

I agree with Kaczor: that would be an excellent choice of a hidden surprise---just what the G.I.s and factory workers did.
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