1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
I’ve always enjoyed the challenge of doing the Sherman and Centurion canvas mantlet covers
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Ecam
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Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
For me that would rate right up there with bamboo under the fingernails.
Nice and impressive work on that cover.
"Don't believe everything you see on the internet" - George S. Patton
Eric
Eric
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PainlessWolf
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Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Good Afternoon,
Mantlet covers? I've satisfied myself with building and installing the mounts for them and as for the covers? Black Market Thieves got em'. ;o)
regards,
Painless
Mantlet covers? I've satisfied myself with building and installing the mounts for them and as for the covers? Black Market Thieves got em'. ;o)
regards,
Painless
...Here for the Dawn...
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Herr Dr. Professor
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Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
"Imperfections can be seen." Where? I don't see any!
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Thanks everyone !
Continuing with the turret.
View of the 1/35 AFV Club Centurion turret side parts, showing the only cast markings on the turret above the pistol port, and also the mounting points for the turret side bins. Be aware that the last letter T of the cast mark will be located behind the bin when in position.
Looking through my collection of books on the Centurion, i also saw the following markings on a Sho't Kal front upper turret just under the racks for the Blazer ERA. I have not seen it elsewhere, the Sho't kal base could be coming from anywhere, i am reluctant of including something similar on a mark 5, and not seen on a confirmed Centurion mark 5.
These are the TONGDE turret side bins, not bad but they are hollow and we're previously glued directly against the turret, which is not accurate.
They are totally cleaned up of all features other than the hinges and the lids. Notice that some side of the bins do not have the lid for the cover, it needs to be added using a thin plasticard strip.
It more and more seems to me that TONGDE used the AFV Club 1/13 kit as a base model to upscale to 1/16, at least the main parts, not the details. I see similar basic features everywhere between the two. It's a good thing.
The cast marks on the turret side needs to be done with 3mm letters, such as Plastruct PABT-4.
In order to be installed correctly, the side bins need to be closed on tyhe back. Some stops made of plasticard residue are positioned to provide some backing for the plates to be added.
Bins are closed and cast mark is done. I also finetuned the cast effect on the turret, i made it lighter a bit. I am using the remaining of an almost empty Tamiya Dark Yellow spray can to apply another coat behind the bins which will be difficult to reach later.
I calculated that from the bottom of the turret, the bins need to be positioned at 19.5mm high and i made some positioning marks. This is important. Take note that the pistol port was glued shut, which allows a large hole showing above the hinge to be closed with putty and then refined.
Continuing on following post.
Continuing with the turret.
View of the 1/35 AFV Club Centurion turret side parts, showing the only cast markings on the turret above the pistol port, and also the mounting points for the turret side bins. Be aware that the last letter T of the cast mark will be located behind the bin when in position.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 1.JPG (1.15 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
Looking through my collection of books on the Centurion, i also saw the following markings on a Sho't Kal front upper turret just under the racks for the Blazer ERA. I have not seen it elsewhere, the Sho't kal base could be coming from anywhere, i am reluctant of including something similar on a mark 5, and not seen on a confirmed Centurion mark 5.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 2.JPG (2.65 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
These are the TONGDE turret side bins, not bad but they are hollow and we're previously glued directly against the turret, which is not accurate.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 3.JPG (1.81 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
They are totally cleaned up of all features other than the hinges and the lids. Notice that some side of the bins do not have the lid for the cover, it needs to be added using a thin plasticard strip.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 3a.JPG (1.99 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
It more and more seems to me that TONGDE used the AFV Club 1/13 kit as a base model to upscale to 1/16, at least the main parts, not the details. I see similar basic features everywhere between the two. It's a good thing.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 4.JPG (2.92 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
The cast marks on the turret side needs to be done with 3mm letters, such as Plastruct PABT-4.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 5.JPG (2.21 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
In order to be installed correctly, the side bins need to be closed on tyhe back. Some stops made of plasticard residue are positioned to provide some backing for the plates to be added.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 6.JPG (2.5 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
Bins are closed and cast mark is done. I also finetuned the cast effect on the turret, i made it lighter a bit. I am using the remaining of an almost empty Tamiya Dark Yellow spray can to apply another coat behind the bins which will be difficult to reach later.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 7.JPG (1.86 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
I calculated that from the bottom of the turret, the bins need to be positioned at 19.5mm high and i made some positioning marks. This is important. Take note that the pistol port was glued shut, which allows a large hole showing above the hinge to be closed with putty and then refined.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 8.JPG (1.75 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 9.JPG (2.53 MiB) Viewed 1659 times
Continuing on following post.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Mon Sep 18, 2023 12:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
The spacing between the bins and the turret is significant and highly visible. I checked pictures and the AFV Club kit to determine the best distance.
As seen on the AFV Club model, i created mount points behind the bins, using 2mm rods. I removed the paint and any putty on the bins and the turret under the mount points in order for the glue to have a better grip.
After a lot of adjustment on the mounting points to ensure they all have a good grip and a lot of dry fitting, the bins are glued in place.
Time to take care of the locks on the bins.
I am using Shapeways German panzer tools locks as a source material for the Centurion bins. They have the required loop and latch. I am using the series highlighted in red.
I cut the parts that i do not need, keeping only the wire loop and a section of the latch.
Continuing on following post
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 10.JPG (2.82 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
As seen on the AFV Club model, i created mount points behind the bins, using 2mm rods. I removed the paint and any putty on the bins and the turret under the mount points in order for the glue to have a better grip.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 11.JPG (1.63 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
After a lot of adjustment on the mounting points to ensure they all have a good grip and a lot of dry fitting, the bins are glued in place.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 12.JPG (2.59 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 13.JPG (2.08 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 14.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 14a.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
Time to take care of the locks on the bins.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 14b.png (66.47 KiB) Viewed 1656 times
I am using Shapeways German panzer tools locks as a source material for the Centurion bins. They have the required loop and latch. I am using the series highlighted in red.
I cut the parts that i do not need, keeping only the wire loop and a section of the latch.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 15.JPG (1.64 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 16.JPG (1.26 MiB) Viewed 1656 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 17.JPG (301.04 KiB) Viewed 1656 times
Continuing on following post
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
A set of locks for the bins has been scratch built and made ready to install.
Notice the L shaped brass strips under the bins, as seen in reference pictures and on the AFV Club model.
The locks are installed, looking good.
Overview of the bins.
That's is for now for the bins. The thin and fragile handles will be done in brass rods towards the end of the build. Next step, the commander's cupola.
Regards, Louis
Notice the L shaped brass strips under the bins, as seen in reference pictures and on the AFV Club model.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 18.JPG (443.42 KiB) Viewed 1653 times
The locks are installed, looking good.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 19.JPG (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 20.JPG (798.81 KiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 21.JPG (1.35 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
Overview of the bins.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 22.JPG (2.82 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 23.JPG (2.57 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 24.JPG (2.96 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 25.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 26.JPG (2.36 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 27.JPG (1.5 MiB) Viewed 1653 times
That's is for now for the bins. The thin and fragile handles will be done in brass rods towards the end of the build. Next step, the commander's cupola.
Regards, Louis
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Raminator
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Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Just spent a little bit catching up on this build, you're on to another winner! It's nice to see the Tongde Centurion is mostly up there in terms of accuracy, makes a great alternative to the overpriced Tamiya offering.
With regards to the suspension, it looks more like the springs are too soft rather than the bogies too high; the roadwheel pairs look like they're spaced too far apart. Should hopefully be a (relatively) easy fix, then!
With regards to the suspension, it looks more like the springs are too soft rather than the bogies too high; the roadwheel pairs look like they're spaced too far apart. Should hopefully be a (relatively) easy fix, then!
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Thanks Raminator,Raminator wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2023 9:57 am Just spent a little bit catching up on this build, you're on to another winner! It's nice to see the Tongde Centurion is mostly up there in terms of accuracy, makes a great alternative to the overpriced Tamiya offering.
With regards to the suspension, it looks more like the springs are too soft rather than the bogies too high; the roadwheel pairs look like they're spaced too far apart. Should hopefully be a (relatively) easy fix, then!
I did some analysis on the suspension last week with Ad Lav. As you brought up the subject, here is the result of my analysis.
I thought i could just lower the stops to make the suspension higher. After checking the springs with the plastic suspension, it seems weak to do the job.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3144.JPG (1.36 MiB) Viewed 1592 times
Comparing the belly of the Ludwig and TONGDE centurion to see if there is anything obvious. Not from that angle.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- Screenshot 2023-09-19 064456.png (485.48 KiB) Viewed 1592 times
Then i compared the Ludwig and TONGDE roadwheels... this is where the issue is. Shown here are the two roadwheels at an equivalent base. The TONGDE roadwheel is terribly undersized, with both the rim and the rubber band. I checked against the 1/35 kit to extrapolate specs for the 1/16 roadwheel and the Ludwig is perfect. The TONGDE rim is missing about 3.2mm is diameter, and the rubber band is missing 2.4mm in diameter..
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3160.JPG (2.06 MiB) Viewed 1592 times
Knowing how different the TONGDE plastic and metal roadwheels were with the M60, i decided to purchase the TONGDE Centurion metal upgrade, with new metal roadwheels, new suspension cover and hopefully stronger springs, and metal tracks. I had pretty much decided to purchase it anyway, and wait to see what is the situation with it. At first sight, it looks similar.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- Screenshot 2023-09-19 063504.png (434.39 KiB) Viewed 1592 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- Screenshot 2023-09-19 063540.png (211.82 KiB) Viewed 1592 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- Screenshot 2023-09-19 063600.png (507.68 KiB) Viewed 1592 times
Other than playing with the plastic stops on the suspension to give me a couple of mm, another option i see is to take the rubber bands of the plastic roadwheels and glue them on top of the ones on the metal roadwheels, smooth things out, giving me rubber bands of the proper diameter and another 2mm in height for the hull.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3650.JPG (2.51 MiB) Viewed 1592 times
But that will be a another story for later when i will receive the metal upgrade kit and see the situation. The main advantage of purchasing the TONGDE metal upgrade separately instead of the metal edition is that you end up with extra plastic parts you can do something with, including plastic roadwheels, tracks and gearbox.
Regards, Louis
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Hello,
The following posts are for the commander's cupola and the gunner's hatch.
A good reference for the Centurion is "Centurion Part 2 in detail" by WWP. Of specific interest is a pretty good walk around of a Centurion Mk 12 and a Sho't Kal.
What i like about it is that the authors are not scared of climbing on the tanks to provide detailed images of the areas on top, such as the commander's hatch. Highly recommended for this kind of build. I have studied every pictures at lenght, many areas remain consistent between Centurion marks.
The TONGDE hatches have problems, some are design, others are assembly related, such as the gunner's hatches that do not close, or the commander's hatch with two handles...
The ring around the commander's hatch is too thick. The binoculars are glued reversed and there are deep gaps. Craftmanship is poor.
Although it is not really apparent, the periscopes under the ring are rectangular. Notice the hatch handles...It's not like you can keep one or the other. They are both wrong.
The hinge is not well detailed and after some analysis decided to carve out the central part.
First step is to rebuild a working hinge using a brass tube. I also gave the periscope a better shape.
Then rolled a spring around the hinge using a 0.81mm brass rod. The exterior area of the spring is then covered by a 5mm half round plasticard tube that you will see later.
The ring is too thick and i decided to file it from the top to reduce it in thickness.
However, there are issues with it that i did not like at all. The guard over the binoculars is rounded, it should be strait. The ring is not flat, it is somehow twisted and it shows. There are gaps. I decided to redo it.
Continuing on following post
The following posts are for the commander's cupola and the gunner's hatch.
A good reference for the Centurion is "Centurion Part 2 in detail" by WWP. Of specific interest is a pretty good walk around of a Centurion Mk 12 and a Sho't Kal.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 1.JPG (2.49 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
What i like about it is that the authors are not scared of climbing on the tanks to provide detailed images of the areas on top, such as the commander's hatch. Highly recommended for this kind of build. I have studied every pictures at lenght, many areas remain consistent between Centurion marks.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 2.JPG (2.99 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
The TONGDE hatches have problems, some are design, others are assembly related, such as the gunner's hatches that do not close, or the commander's hatch with two handles...
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 5.JPG (946.6 KiB) Viewed 1569 times
The ring around the commander's hatch is too thick. The binoculars are glued reversed and there are deep gaps. Craftmanship is poor.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 6.JPG (849.85 KiB) Viewed 1569 times
Although it is not really apparent, the periscopes under the ring are rectangular. Notice the hatch handles...It's not like you can keep one or the other. They are both wrong.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 7.JPG (2.27 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
The hinge is not well detailed and after some analysis decided to carve out the central part.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 8.JPG (1.35 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
First step is to rebuild a working hinge using a brass tube. I also gave the periscope a better shape.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 9.JPG (1.93 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
Then rolled a spring around the hinge using a 0.81mm brass rod. The exterior area of the spring is then covered by a 5mm half round plasticard tube that you will see later.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 10.JPG (2.39 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
The ring is too thick and i decided to file it from the top to reduce it in thickness.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 11.JPG (2.27 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
However, there are issues with it that i did not like at all. The guard over the binoculars is rounded, it should be strait. The ring is not flat, it is somehow twisted and it shows. There are gaps. I decided to redo it.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 12.JPG (1.26 MiB) Viewed 1569 times
Continuing on following post
