Another beautiful build.
I am going to show my ignorance, and ask a question, if I may? What does Sho’t mean?
1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
According to the IDF book author Robert Manasherob, the Israeli purchase of Centurions was a top secret matter for the British who did not want to damage their relations with the Arab countries. The Code Name Sho’t (meaning Whip in Hebrew) was used to replace the name Centurion in all documents and conversations. The code name was kept for decades after.
-
Meter rat
- Warrant Officer 1st Class
- Posts: 1525
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:33 pm
- Location: By the sea in Argyle and Bute
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Thank you for the explanation.lmcq11 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 1:27 pmAccording to the IDF book author Robert Manasherob, the Israeli purchase of Centurions was a top secret matter for the British who did not want to damage their relations with the Arab countries. The Code Name Sho’t (meaning Whip in Hebrew) was used to replace the name Centurion in all documents and conversations. The code name was kept for decades after.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Louis, I measure around 98mm but will take a photo and confirm tomottke.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Thanks Ad Lav,
The Ludwig Centurion is 99mm high and my TONGDE Centurion with plastic suspension and tracks is only 92mm high. Assuming that Tamiya is right, the TONGDE model is missing a whopping 6mm in height. It looks low too, it really shows, especially next to another Centurion. It would be nice if Lee could confirm the height of his TONDGE Centurion with metal suspension and tracks.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3146.JPG (1.59 MiB) Viewed 1322 times
Looks like i will later have to play with the stops on the suspensions, and see if the springs are strong enough to raise the model by at least 5 to 6mm.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3143.JPG (1.44 MiB) Viewed 1322 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3144.JPG (2.44 MiB) Viewed 1322 times
Thank you, it confirms my suspicions, the plastic suspension TONGDE is low.
Regards,
Louis
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Hi everyone,
The following posts are for the mantlet canvas cover.
I watched a horror movie on Amazon Prime monday night. I then had a nightmare where the devil was trying to get a hold of me and i was telling him to go screw himself. I woke up all cocky and told myself that today is a good day to do a Centurion mantlet canvas cover, the scourge of every model builder.
What kind of mantlet cover to create... every Centurion marks and country using them seem to have their own variations. There don't seem to be a good Sho't Meteor surviving vehicle that people can take a walk around, they probably got all converted to Sho't Kal and then further modified in subsequent phases. Looking at old wartime pictures is not really convincing, usually taken from far away, the mantlet cover is often torn, removed, or the picture is not of the right Sho't version. I needed some vision of what to do.
Looking at the 1/35 market for inspiration, there are many available to supplement the model maker's lack of mantlet cover, or their bad interpretation of it. It's also confusing as specific styles exists for every Centurion marks or country using them. Some of these mantlet cover are beautiful, some are ok, others are ugly, it’s also a question of taste and skills.
I needed specs. I selected the DEF Model rendition of a Sho't canvas cover, specific to the one use on the Sho't Meteor, which to me is the best looking. The canvas that i saw on real Sho't Kals does not look like it so i would not use this one on a Sho't Kal. The model below from DEF Model looks good, it exposes the machine gun area and is a no brainer but i could also have used the version for the Mk 5 with covered machine gun area that i saw being used on Sho't meteor as well. Whether they are right or wrong, using their research for my 1/16 canvas cover cannot be worse than my own research looking at fuzzy pictures in order to determine shapes and specs.
I therefore use the following web advertisement pictures as specs for my 1/16 Centurion Sho’t Meteor canvas cover, and try to do something that looks like it but a bit less dramatic, a bit more strait, the best i can. It would need to allow for gun elevation as well.
After some study of the desired mantlet cover below, I determined that i cannot do this canvas in one piece of fabric. I need at least 3 sections in order for the canvas to have the proper shape and boxed structure. There is a need for a central section, flat in top, with working foldings for elevation, then a section for each side with static folds but flexible edges that can be glued under the central section, mimicking the sewing seen in the reference pictures.
The model shows a lot of fine folds in the canvas, with heavy sagging, really beautiful. Ok, maybe its realistic but it does not necessarily means it is doable in fabric in our scale or that it will look good on a 1/16 model. But i like folds, some of these are definilety needed to look more realistic.
As used on the M-60A1 build, a pair of Javex Latex gloves were purchased at the Dollar store as core material for the Centurion canvas cover, along with all the skills and luck I could muster for the following hour
Starting with the central section, Latex material is extracted from a flat area of the glove without raised elements. I used the interior tan side that has a nice fabric feel to it, and that holds on to acrylic paint much better than the rubber yellow side.
Before cutting anything on my precious material, i used a paper sheet for a stencil to determine and test the position of the two holes.
I made a paper prototype of the central section and finetuned it as required. At this point, it's better for the holes to be too small than too big.
The basic central section of the canvas is ready. It was not cut with scissors which do a bad job on latex, it was cut with a new sharp blade applied flat against the cutting map for a suite of nice and strait cuts.
Mounting of the Canvas cover.
Continuing on following posts
The following posts are for the mantlet canvas cover.
I watched a horror movie on Amazon Prime monday night. I then had a nightmare where the devil was trying to get a hold of me and i was telling him to go screw himself. I woke up all cocky and told myself that today is a good day to do a Centurion mantlet canvas cover, the scourge of every model builder.
What kind of mantlet cover to create... every Centurion marks and country using them seem to have their own variations. There don't seem to be a good Sho't Meteor surviving vehicle that people can take a walk around, they probably got all converted to Sho't Kal and then further modified in subsequent phases. Looking at old wartime pictures is not really convincing, usually taken from far away, the mantlet cover is often torn, removed, or the picture is not of the right Sho't version. I needed some vision of what to do.
Looking at the 1/35 market for inspiration, there are many available to supplement the model maker's lack of mantlet cover, or their bad interpretation of it. It's also confusing as specific styles exists for every Centurion marks or country using them. Some of these mantlet cover are beautiful, some are ok, others are ugly, it’s also a question of taste and skills.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 1.png (1.22 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
I needed specs. I selected the DEF Model rendition of a Sho't canvas cover, specific to the one use on the Sho't Meteor, which to me is the best looking. The canvas that i saw on real Sho't Kals does not look like it so i would not use this one on a Sho't Kal. The model below from DEF Model looks good, it exposes the machine gun area and is a no brainer but i could also have used the version for the Mk 5 with covered machine gun area that i saw being used on Sho't meteor as well. Whether they are right or wrong, using their research for my 1/16 canvas cover cannot be worse than my own research looking at fuzzy pictures in order to determine shapes and specs.
I therefore use the following web advertisement pictures as specs for my 1/16 Centurion Sho’t Meteor canvas cover, and try to do something that looks like it but a bit less dramatic, a bit more strait, the best i can. It would need to allow for gun elevation as well.
After some study of the desired mantlet cover below, I determined that i cannot do this canvas in one piece of fabric. I need at least 3 sections in order for the canvas to have the proper shape and boxed structure. There is a need for a central section, flat in top, with working foldings for elevation, then a section for each side with static folds but flexible edges that can be glued under the central section, mimicking the sewing seen in the reference pictures.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 2.png (649.68 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
The model shows a lot of fine folds in the canvas, with heavy sagging, really beautiful. Ok, maybe its realistic but it does not necessarily means it is doable in fabric in our scale or that it will look good on a 1/16 model. But i like folds, some of these are definilety needed to look more realistic.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 3.png (444.38 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 4.png (396.66 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
As used on the M-60A1 build, a pair of Javex Latex gloves were purchased at the Dollar store as core material for the Centurion canvas cover, along with all the skills and luck I could muster for the following hour
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 5.JPG (1.92 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
Starting with the central section, Latex material is extracted from a flat area of the glove without raised elements. I used the interior tan side that has a nice fabric feel to it, and that holds on to acrylic paint much better than the rubber yellow side.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 6.JPG (1.54 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
Before cutting anything on my precious material, i used a paper sheet for a stencil to determine and test the position of the two holes.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3042.JPG (1.48 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
I made a paper prototype of the central section and finetuned it as required. At this point, it's better for the holes to be too small than too big.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3048.JPG (842.29 KiB) Viewed 1319 times
The basic central section of the canvas is ready. It was not cut with scissors which do a bad job on latex, it was cut with a new sharp blade applied flat against the cutting map for a suite of nice and strait cuts.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3052.JPG (1.21 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
Mounting of the Canvas cover.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3054.JPG (1.63 MiB) Viewed 1319 times
Continuing on following posts
Last edited by lmcq11 on Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:32 pm, edited 18 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
Started gluing the area around the gun barrel first, then around the coax machine gun, these must be fixed in place. I left loose material on top and bottom for the elevation to work like seen in the reference pictures, then glued the top and bottom to the turret. At this point, reopening the turret halves to fix something inside is no longer a possibility.
There are 5 reinforcement strips on the top that i recreated using .020 plasticard at the bottom with a narrower .010 strip on top.
The top needs to be strait so i glued the tip first.
I stretched the top material and glued the remaining area for a strait top from the turret to the tip of the mantlet.
After achieving vertival alignment, i had to insert a small metal plate with glue on top so that the reinforcement strips and the overall top of the canvas can remain firmly horizontal and flat at all time. The plate has no sharp corners that can ruin the canvas. Without this plate, the canvas had a tendency to raise, and also unevenly, when elevating the gun.
Testing the elevation, i realize i had left way too much material at the bottom, so i removed the canvas with a sharp knife at the bottom, cut about 10mm and reglued it to the turret bottom.
You can see where this is going. While gluing the canvas, i create some folds in the canvas that mimic references, some folds are for the working elevation, others are just for the look.
Creating the side sections, i gave them a small plasticard plate underneath that allows for some structure and some static and permanent folds in the canvas to be created, glued to the plasticard, while leaving material on all sides for flexibility and allow for the elevation as well.
Continuing on following post
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3056.JPG (1.38 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
There are 5 reinforcement strips on the top that i recreated using .020 plasticard at the bottom with a narrower .010 strip on top.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3058.JPG (1.33 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
The top needs to be strait so i glued the tip first.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3061.JPG (1.58 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
I stretched the top material and glued the remaining area for a strait top from the turret to the tip of the mantlet.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3062.JPG (1.41 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
After achieving vertival alignment, i had to insert a small metal plate with glue on top so that the reinforcement strips and the overall top of the canvas can remain firmly horizontal and flat at all time. The plate has no sharp corners that can ruin the canvas. Without this plate, the canvas had a tendency to raise, and also unevenly, when elevating the gun.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3074.JPG (694.52 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
Testing the elevation, i realize i had left way too much material at the bottom, so i removed the canvas with a sharp knife at the bottom, cut about 10mm and reglued it to the turret bottom.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3075.JPG (1.31 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
You can see where this is going. While gluing the canvas, i create some folds in the canvas that mimic references, some folds are for the working elevation, others are just for the look.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3076.JPG (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3079.JPG (1.6 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
Creating the side sections, i gave them a small plasticard plate underneath that allows for some structure and some static and permanent folds in the canvas to be created, glued to the plasticard, while leaving material on all sides for flexibility and allow for the elevation as well.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3081.JPG (968.42 KiB) Viewed 1318 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3082.JPG (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1318 times
Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:41 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
As i expected, the installation of the side sections was complicated. The fabric of the central section needs to go over the fabric of the sides in order to mimic the sewing. Starting at the top, i tried to align the folds on the side sections with the ones on the central sections but there were difficulty in positioning the material. Mix this with superglue all over your fingers and it gets ugly real fast. At one point, i had to decide whether to cut the skin on the tip of my finger, or protect the canvas that was firmly glued to it. The canvas is strong but once glued with superglue, it is very difficult to remove the bond without breaking the fabric. So, this is not a forgiving installation where you can undo something that does not look good. It has to be right the first time. I used superglue, but maybe some other glue would work better for people who wants to take more time, less risks, and work a few mm per modelling session.
But with perseverance, i was able to do something, the best i could. Putty with a layer of superglue on top can be used to fill some issues in the canvas. It will get painted later so these imperfections should not show.
I added the canvas retention bar in plasticard strips around the turret and the machine gun section.
As seen in reference for a Mk12, these are small bolts with washers. I learned from previous experiences and i did not try to use brass bolts on the canvas retention bars. I used Meng SPS007 1mm bolt heads on the turret, and 0.8mm bolt heads on the machine gun section.
And here is the finished 1/16 scale Centurion Canvas cover. Some finetuning here and there will be done. It will also look better with paint on it. I am daring a bit by taking such close up pictures of it. Imperfections can be seen but believe me, this was not easy. I am happy with the results.
Around the barrel, i noticed some pics with what seem to be a brace around the cover to keep it in place around the barreI. I therefore created 3 rings in plasticard, with a larger one in the middle to mimic the brace, and the whole thing is kept independent from the recoiling barrel.
Continung on following post
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3084.JPG (1.44 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
But with perseverance, i was able to do something, the best i could. Putty with a layer of superglue on top can be used to fill some issues in the canvas. It will get painted later so these imperfections should not show.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3087.JPG (1.05 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
I added the canvas retention bar in plasticard strips around the turret and the machine gun section.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3099.JPG (1.24 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
As seen in reference for a Mk12, these are small bolts with washers. I learned from previous experiences and i did not try to use brass bolts on the canvas retention bars. I used Meng SPS007 1mm bolt heads on the turret, and 0.8mm bolt heads on the machine gun section.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3103.JPG (2.33 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
And here is the finished 1/16 scale Centurion Canvas cover. Some finetuning here and there will be done. It will also look better with paint on it. I am daring a bit by taking such close up pictures of it. Imperfections can be seen but believe me, this was not easy. I am happy with the results.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3106.JPG (827.36 KiB) Viewed 1315 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3105.JPG (1.33 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3107.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3109.JPG (1.29 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3111.JPG (1.39 MiB) Viewed 1315 times
Around the barrel, i noticed some pics with what seem to be a brace around the cover to keep it in place around the barreI. I therefore created 3 rings in plasticard, with a larger one in the middle to mimic the brace, and the whole thing is kept independent from the recoiling barrel.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3121.JPG (880.06 KiB) Viewed 1315 times
Last edited by lmcq11 on Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 10 times in total.
Re: 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3129.JPG (967.94 KiB) Viewed 1314 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3134.JPG (1.51 MiB) Viewed 1314 times
The TONGDE model does not have a lot of elevation. But it’s probably a good thing, it protects the canvas. I am showing maximum up down and up elevation on the TONGDE centurion. The limited elevation of the model does no even seem to stretch the canvas at all. I could have replaced the elevation wheel by a bigger one if I wanted to in order to get more elevation without issue for the canvas.
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3136.JPG (1.1 MiB) Viewed 1314 times
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- IMG_3137.JPG (1 MiB) Viewed 1314 times
Ok, time to take a break. This was a stressful modelling experience but I also gained skills for the next one. And i did not have to sell my soul to the devil to have a Centurion Mantlet canvas cover...
- 1/16 RC IDF Late Sho't Meteor Centurion with 105mm - build
- last.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1314 times
Regards, Louis
Last edited by lmcq11 on Fri Sep 15, 2023 1:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.
