Re: Elmod battle unit sensor

percy1510 · Post by **percy1510** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:36 pm

Hi everyone

I have been testing my heng long battle system against a tamiya one. What I am finding is that My elmod equipped P4 will take a hit when the other tank is not really pointing directly at it. To get a hit on the Tamiya system I have to be quite accurate. On both tanks I have put the battle unit sender inside a small length of tube on the mantlet. I wonder if anyone on here knows why the elmod takes hits when it shouldn't.

The elmod battle sensor is plugged into its socket in the comanders hatch so the whole unit is above the tank just like Tamiya system but the elmod sensor is not inside a casing so could that be my problem? and if so does anyone have any ideas on how to make a case similar to the Tamiya's for the elmod .

Cheers
Glyn

percy1510 · Post by **percy1510** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:41 pm

"I have been testing my heng long battle system"

Sorry That shoud read Elmod battle system

Glyn :-[

IMPACT · Post by **IMPACT** » Sat May 02, 2009 12:52 pm

there is a common misunderstanding about Tamiya Battle Unit, that it is a simple device.
On the contrary, it is a very well thought out system.

To answer your question in the most simplest way:
Tamiya battle unit receiver (the black mushroom thing) will only take signal directly. It will NOT take a signal that is reflected.
At a distance of 10m, the sensitivity of the Tamiya receiver is about 20m.

These are just one of the many special characteristics that Tamiya Battle System has.

YHR · Post by **YHR** » Sun May 03, 2009 2:37 am

IMPACT wrote: there is a common misunderstanding about Tamiya Battle Unit, that it is a simple device.
On the contrary, it is a very well thought out system.

To answer your question in the most simplest way:
Tamiya battle unit receiver (the black mushroom thing) will only take signal directly. It will NOT take a signal that is reflected.
At a distance of 10m, the sensitivity of the Tamiya receiver is about <2" radius, referencing from the center of the 8fins.
So, is IMPACT battle unit receiver.
It will only take reflected signal when it is in TEST mode.

Other brands battle unit receiver will receive signals that are reflected.

Infrared IR signal has characteristics that it will "bounced" from flat and relatively smooth material/surface. Try with your TV IR remote control. Your TV will still respond to your controller if you pointed it at the wall opposite of the TV.
(Home appliances IR remote controller has an effective range of about <5meter)

These are just one of the many special characteristics that Tamiya Battle System has.

It is all about the fins and the way they are mounted. Geometry and physical blocks, not electonics is why the Tamiya sensor seems finer tuned. Install fins with internal shims layed out at 90 degrees and it will mimic the Tamiya sensor much closer.

percy1510 · Post by **percy1510** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:34 am

Thanks for replying. Sounds like what you are both saying is that I definately need to encase my elmod sensor in a similar mushroom to the Tamiya or Heng Long types.

So my next question is has anyone reading this ever built such a mushroom and if so how did you do it ?

Glyn

Der Schut · Post by **Der Schut** » Sun May 03, 2009 11:48 am

percy1510 wrote:
So my next question is has anyone reading this ever built such a mushroom and if so how did you do it ?

Glyn

yes i have build one.
i have use 0,5 mm poly sheet and 1 mm poly stripes
it helps to get the sensor not so sensitive.
after the testing i wood change the stripes to 0,5 mm this works better.

here are the pictures

regards Jens

IMPACT · Post by **IMPACT** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:42 pm

there seems to be a misinterpretation of our previous post.

We are just stating the "sensitivity" of the receiver at a given distance, for a reference point in the receiver.

Tamiya's system ability to reject reflected signal is not because of the fins.

percy1510 · Post by **percy1510** » Sun May 03, 2009 12:58 pm

perfect jens

i will have a go at making one like yours . thanks

glyn

YHR · Post by **YHR** » Sun May 03, 2009 3:08 pm

IMPACT wrote: there seems to be a misinterpretation of our previous post.

We are just stating the "sensitivity" of the receiver at a given distance, for a reference point in the receiver.

Tamiya's system ability to reject reflected signal is not because of the fins.

How does it do this then???????? You are telling me something I have never heard before, so I am interested. As IR senors are sensitve to the wavelength, I am wondering how Tamiya has so how been able to let the sensor know that the wavelength has been reflected off another surface??

Regardless the fins describe above will make a big difference in the El Mod senstivity.

IMPACT · Post by **IMPACT** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:00 pm

hobbyists may have opinions on Tamiya's way of pricing their 1/16 tanks and parts, but to IMPACT, they are more than fair.
IMPACT wanted to make a M4 in 2007, but when we laid out the cost, it was mission impossible.
Meaning to make a 100% equivalent Tamiya quality, but at lower retail price.

Other brands may have make their version of 1/16 tanks, but if you really put it under the microscope, there is no comparison.

Alternatively, HL, Mato, Matorro, and others do have their contributions. They provided a much lower retail price tanks for new comers and hobbyists that just wanted to do something different.

For IMPACT, our direction is always to be a supplier of high quality solutions. The only way to achieve that is to stick close to the BEST and learn from the BEST. The BEST is Tamiya.

Tamiya 1/16 Full Option Tank was released in year 2000. There is a reason why the market has only started to have alternative battle systems after soon many years. It is not easy to break the "secret" and replicate the similar effect.
Just to make it justifiable to yourself, do a comparison with battle systems from Tamiya, HL, EL mode and DBU, at conditions:
1. 25m, outdoors, bright sunlight. Firing directly onto one another
2. 3m, indoors, firing at a flat smooth wall at angle to reflect to another tank. (3m because some brands do not have a good long range capability)

The first conditions answer:
only Tamiya's system will respond stably at 25m.

The second conditions answer:
Tamiya's system will never respond to reflected signal (except at TEST mode)

and that is why it is worth more with Tamiya's system.

Tamiya used the best components and the best design, that is also why DMD is so robust,
All these only mean higher production cost, which if anyone wanted to achieve the Tamiya-level product, it will come back to the same cost.

Our tank club in Singapore, the battle field that we played, can be as larger as 50m x 50m. We can play in a small size field, but it will be boring because everyone will be in range.
(all are Tamiya 1/16 tanks)

There is no absolute right or wrong with choosing any brands, so long one has fun.
It is also good for both, the supplier and consumer, that there is competition. This will bring down the price and rise the quality level.

As for your curious question on the IR, we will leave it to Tamiya to answer (if they saw this post, that is). They are the intelligent ones with the original design and idea, they deserve all the rights to reveal the truth.