Sherman sacrilege...

[43rdRecceReg]

I've noticed that the Israeli Defence Force M50/M51 models look quite a bit like the Sherman Vc Firefly. Apparently, they share the same basic turret, and are both largely derived- in number terms at least- from the M4A4 body. Has anyone here ever contemplated converting the M50 into a Firefly (Vc)? Yes, that's probably sacrilege...and a 'to be shot at dawn suggestion', but I'd quite like a 1/16 fully functional Sherman now..but only if it is the BRITISH Firefly version, with our 17-pounder on board.. ...shock, horror, outrage..
I know quite a few early Fireflies were based on the on the M4 chassis (1c), and others on the M2A2(?), but the majority of Fireflies were based on the M4A4 chassis, and nobody seems to make one of these..except for Tamiya, who do for a 1/16 M51, apparently.
I saw Tankmad's impressive, and improvised Firefly, but I don't want to start sawing tanks in half, and end up becoming a sort of Armoured Frankenstein..
Any ideas, anyone?

[ALPHA]

Sorry 43....you have no choice....if you want a true Firefly...you will have to break out that saw

Spoiler: show

precision cutting necessary

ALPHA

[Max-U52]

Didn't the Firefly use the VVSS and the M50/51 the HVSS?

[tomhugill]

Tamiyas "super Sherman" isn't really a proper m51 or m50 the turrets correct for an m51 but that's about it. As Max-u52 pointed out all Tamiya based offerings are hvss. The IDF used what ever they could get their hands on to build the 51s and 50s, you'll see some m4a4 50s which mainly went to chile and became m50/60s but most m51s were cast hull. The turrets also completely different as they have different mantlets, turret bustles and hatches. Also the engine deck is completely different as is
the rear of the hull. So in short no converting one of these into a firefly would be more work than using a normal Sherman and getting out the razor saw (to extend or make a hybrid)

[frankie]

As Tom says, you're better off using a Mato or HL base to convert..plus if you dont want to do a stretched M4a4 (VC) you could do a M4 composite (IC Hybrid) or just a M4 (IC)...

[tomhugill]

I'm thinking of doing the welded ic small hatch, not quite brave enough with the razor saw!

[ALPHA]

This is it...this is the one....

Spoiler: show

The one I need anyway

I'm building it too

WHO WANTS TO HELP??????????????

ALPHA

[43rdRecceReg]

This is it...this is the one....

Spoiler: show

The one I need anyway

I'm building it too

WHO WANTS TO HELP??????????????

ALPHA

Hmmm, Ok, but isn't that one of those that shrank in the wash?..a 1/35 ...I don't want anything lilliputian, General. If anything, in my twilight years I'd like to go to 1/8; 1:4 and then- wide-eyed and grinning from sagging jowl to sagging jowl-...yep..to the real thing!! Actually..I'm not kidding! Levity aside, the M4 conversion looks doable; just have to acquire the right surgical saws, and a castle in Hesse (Burg Frankenstein..)

[43rdRecceReg]

As Tom says, you're better off using a Mato or HL base to convert..plus if you dont want to do a stretched M4a4 (VC) you could do a M4 composite (IC Hybrid) or just a M4 (IC)...

Looks good, Frankie. I also like the barrel disguise; it makes the Ic look quite modest about its potency. I did read somewhere, that in Normandy the Panzer units and anti-tank squads were instructed to target the Fireflies first, and seek out that distinctive protuberance!
I'll certainly check out your suggestions.

[43rdRecceReg]

Didn't the Firefly use the VVSS and the M50/51 the HVSS?

I'd never really looked closely at the Sherman suspension before now, Max..but a cursory glance at surviving models, and at the Shadock site (http://the.shadock.free.fr//sherman_min ... index.html)..everyone is familiar with, it does seem as if Fireflies had the VVSS system. That's odd, since the HVSS was a later development- and presumably an improvement- and for this reason you'd expect to see it on the elongated and heavier M4A4 variants.. Looks like I'll have to delve deeper..
How difficult would it be to adapt a 1/16 model, whether, Taigen, HL etc.. to acquire and fit the correct suspension units? OK, there are probably loads of links here on Rctw., but you can give me a quicker response mate