17 pounder VS. 88mm

[jackalope]

Ok so the argument has broken out due to FURY that a Sherman with a 17 pounder could cut thru a Tigers frontal armor yet for some reason the Tigers 88 could NEVER punch thru the Shermans like it did in the movie.

I had made 1 single post and WILL NOT get into an argument with random idiots on line however the members here are NOT random idiots so I would like to ask you guys if I am correct in thinking that the 17 pounder is doubtful it could get thru the Tigers frontal armor but that it is a FACT that the 88 could and would punch holes thru a Sherman from whatever angle it wanted to.

Now because I dared to say this I'm "nuthing but a neo-nazi and probly hate Jews" I think its amazing the total ignorance of people yet when you try to educate them your labeled a Jew hating neo-nazi. GOOD GRIEF! I don't hate ANYONE!

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning, Jack,
A lot of folks don't understand that the enjoyment of scale armor or being a re-enactor or even owning antique pieces of German armor _does not_ equate with being a Nazi or having Party leanings. Don't let it get to you. Ignorance abounds unfortunately. Here is a link to British weapons trials results that will prove useful to you hopefully: http://www.battlefront.com/community/ar ... t-615.html
regards,
Painless

[MichaelC]

The Fury Sherman I believe is an Easy 8 (M4A3E8) so it would be the American 76mm not the 17 pdr. 17 Pdr has better ballistic penetration than the 76mm. 88mm has known to shot thru Shermans thru and thru, although I am not too sure if it was the Easy 8s or the M4A3s etc which has less armour thickness.

Anyway just my 2 cents off the top of my head. Not a Sherman expert but I don't believe any 76mm Allie weapon can penetrate a Tiger's front armour other than the 17 pdr which I believe is 76.2 mm (So is the American 76 mm technically I believe).

MIchaelC.

[ALPHA]

Good Morning, Jack,
A lot of folks don't understand that the enjoyment of scale armor or being a re-enactor or even owning antique pieces of German armor _does not_ equate with being a Nazi or having Party leanings. Don't let it get to you. Ignorance abounds unfortunately. Here is a link to British weapons trials results that will prove useful to you hopefully: http://www.battlefront.com/community/ar ... t-615.html
regards,
Painless

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM... Starts of interestingly enough..........but if you scroll down to the bottom... it sounds like the tests were cyber tests from a game format like World of tanks or sumthing ...............


ALPHA

[brizo58]

Hi,
I think you would have to so close to a tiger to penetrate the front armor that you be Abel to talk to it's crew. There are cases where a tiger1 has hit and destroyed a Sherman at 2000+ Met!!!!

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning, Alpha,
The information listed from the British "German 75mm and 88mm APCBC Ammunition at Oblique Angle", Department of Tank Design Report No. M.6914A/4 No.1" at the top is the useful bit and is _not_ game related. To be fair and accurate, here is another useful link for Jack: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm
regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Some Edumakational Stuffs

Not so educational material


ALPHA

[billpe]

Well the penetration charts have been around for decades as to what can punch through whatever else. These are well documented and you can find British, US and Russian versions as well as the German penetration tables for all the different guns used.

The 17 pounder mainly used APCBC which was good for 1000m against the Tiger's hull, even a little further. In theory going on purely numbers, at 0 meters distance and from the side with APDS rounds used by the British (only a few were used), the 17 pounder could go in one side and out the other.

Depending on the ammunition used the Tiger could take out a Sherman at 2000m. It would take a few shots to do that though as good as the optics are, it's hard to hit another tank at that distance with the first round. At the distance in the film Fury, that 88mm round would have punched through the Sherman and come out the other side and left the entire crew in small pieces from spall damage.

The fight in Fury is quite unrealistic in this respect, that and German tank crews did not fire on the move and I doubt US crews did either. A more likely scenario would have been the crew of Fury getting on the radio and asking for the 9th AF or 2nd TAF to come and deal with the tank.

You need David to answer this really if you want the original documents quoted, I'm just working from memory.

[ALPHA]

Good Morning, Alpha,
The information listed from the British "German 75mm and 88mm APCBC Ammunition at Oblique Angle", Department of Tank Design Report No. M.6914A/4 No.1" at the top is the useful bit and is _not_ game related. To be fair and accurate, here is another useful link for Jack: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm
regards,
Painless

You know Painless...that might just be the problem with certain subjects on message boards....there are some that take things seriously...and on the flipside of the coin...ones that don't.....Lucky this board isn't like that ................................ .....................



ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Alpha,
*chuckles* You know that I along with most of the folks here know that you are no laughing matter. ;o) *bows*
regards,
Painless