Torsion bars round vs blade

[ALPHA]

The subject arose while reading a discussion between Chris and Painless
http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... 2&start=20
I was going to jump in ...as it seemed Chris wasn't sure of what Painless was asking.... I think the comparative was because of the inconsistent Taigen suspension of his KV2 build
I just happened to get a Taigen/ Asiatam in the mail the other day...To be flat out honest.....I was a little disappointed because of the suspension system
So to answer Painless's question without disturbing Chris's thread.... I would say the bladed system that Tamiya uses is better... I've come to this conclusion because of the comparison between the two

Both adjust similarly... with interlocking set posts on one end of the assembly ... the weakness in the Taigen design is the spring rods...as there is where the inconsistency lay
A blade is a blade... any distortion is readily seen....the problem with the rods is the process in which they are made... what I saw when I took the Taigen apart was that most of the rods weren't bent equally where the eyelets are formed..they were all "tweeked" ...and needed to be "tweeked" more... and if any of you have ever tried bending spring steel ...that isn't a easy task..

I'm open to debate on this... but my final conclusion is that the blade design is much better...mostly because of the consistent response and travel settings that can be achieved

ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Alpha,
I understand what you mean by tweeking. In the case of my KV-2, I think that the rods just weren't thick enough under the gearboxes and engines. Once I gave them a little extra oomph (assistance), I've had no issues. The road wheels and tracks are amazing to watch as it runs and negotiates obstacles. The double bars you came up with and the limiters on the last two sets have it running sweetly. I still think that I will install an adjustable set like the Corleis at some date in the future. ( Upgrades are never done ;o)
regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Hey there Painless... what I found was it wasn't really that the rods weren't thick enough....but the process of manufacture is the defect.... if you recall ...if you remove one of the rods...both ends have loops bent into it.....what I found is that none were ideal... as the loops were not even all around... most were bent ... just like when you make loops for a detail...sometimes if you bend a wire...one side is a little off.... the difference is with soft steel or brass ...correcting it and making it flat and straight is relatively easy...with spring steel it's a different story... as during manufacture those bends are made under heat... heating it again to correct the problem might actually make it worse as the metal might become brittle ...

I was able to cold tweek some of the springs on my hull...but not really to the perfection that can be had with blades...The basic Taigen suspension design is good... as it is basically a copy of what Tamiya did... big difference is the springs and that it is not as "user" friendly...as I could not completely disassemble the Taigen suspension without causing damage

I will probably upgrade the Taigen I recently got... but I think the way I will go is to attain some Tamiya blades and just replace the rods of the Taigen...that way I can adjust the castellated ends more evenly ...and get proper /consistent travel on all the arms

ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Alpha,
Please illustrate what you are doing to modify the existing Taigen components into blades instead of bars. I may follow suit until I can afford a complete suspension set. Something locked into place with set screws is always preferable to clamps and glues. My curiosity is up, what part of the Taigen suspension did you damage taking it apart? The arms on the metal KV-1 lower unscrewed and slipped out of the hull pretty seamlessly.
regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Alpha,
Please illustrate what you are doing to modify the existing Taigen components into blades instead of bars. I may follow suit until I can afford a complete suspension set. Something locked into place with set screws is always preferable to clamps and glues.
regards,
Painless

It's actually pretty easy Painless... the arms on the Taigen are very similar to Tamiya....to remove them you twist them till the internal pins match with the castings of the mount on the hull... pull the arm off an pull out the spring... on the opposite end there is one anchor and one spring support attachment...both are castellated so you can actually just turn one and relock it to the end screwed into the support brace(allows for adjustments...big jump adjustments )...the blade would just be a replacement for the Taigen round spring...just slide it into the slot... push the arm back in...twist the blade a little so the arm will slide in easier... and that's it ....what I did also find was you probably will not be able to do this on the very front and the very back... as the arms have some sort of "C" clip...not sure if someone else knows how to remove those...but I couldn't figure it out

ALPHA

Ps... the system add on that I designed for you...would work even better with the bladed spring... as there would be a more precise incremental flexibility to adjustments

[PainlessWolf]

Alpha,
All the arms on the KV-1 lower hull have those 'C' clips. I used a pair of small curve nosed needle pliers to remove and re add them. I'll have to have a closer look at the arms on this tank. I didn't think any adjustment was possible other than thicker bars.
regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Alpha,
All the arms on the KV-1 lower hull have those 'C' clips. I used a pair of small curve nosed needle pliers to remove and re add them. I'll have to have a closer look at the arms on this tank. I didn't think any adjustment was possible other than thicker bars.
regards,
Painless

Those clips came off easily? ....it looked like I would have to break something to get those off ....but yeah take a look on the opposing end of the side that goes into the suspension arms... it's a two piece design.... the castellated ends can be rotated to adjust the tension...one click in either is extreme though ...also take a look at the ends of the rods...you will notice what I just described...that the rod ends aren't "true" ...and out of sync

In the meantime I'll check out those clips...if I can remove those ... I'd be able to reset the whole shebang

ALPHA

[ALPHA]

Bummer ....No go on the C clips

ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning, Alpha,
Apologies on the 'C' clips. They make specific pliers as well for those so that may be the ticket ( as well as an excuse to buy a new tool ) I looked at the torsion bars carefully last night while I was filling the smoker and adding those 'L' mounts for the tubing that Sassgrunt had sent along. As I had the right side ( looking back ) idler adjuster off for replacement, I was able to get a good look. The facing slot that the bar goes into looks like a one piece mount held on with a screw with the 'C' clip holding the bar in place there. The swing arm side of the bar mount is just a slot for the arm so maybe Taigen has changed out their torsion bar sets for adjustable ones now? I'll know for sure once I start work on that Tiger 1 kit this year. It has the newest parts from them in it.
regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Good Morning, Alpha,
Apologies on the 'C' clips. They make specific pliers as well for those so that may be the ticket ( as well as an excuse to buy a new tool ) I looked at the torsion bars carefully last night while I was filling the smoker and adding those 'L' mounts for the tubing that Sassgrunt had sent along. As I had the right side ( looking back ) idler adjuster off for replacement, I was able to get a good look. The facing slot that the bar goes into looks like a one piece mount held on with a screw with the 'C' clip holding the bar in place there. The swing arm side of the bar mount is just a slot for the arm so maybe Taigen has changed out their torsion bar sets for adjustable ones now? I'll know for sure once I start work on that Tiger 1 kit this year. It has the newest parts from them in it.
regards,
Painless

Interesting Painless... I wonder if Taigen has suspensions prioritized for each model they produce...you have to see this C clip...it's pretty gnarly ...not your everyday C clip... no real way to get any kind of pliers in there... and I have several to choose from....tried every one of them too It would be nice to be able to remove them ... as disassembling the whole system would make it easier to fine tune....but the rods are the main weakness I think... did you notice that the loops are not even?

ALPHA