Mato M4A1(76)w - Suspension Issues

[BFT2002]

Hello,

I'm separating my two main issues to keep the threads clean.

Ok, so my Mato tank, I bought the Mato metal tracks with the duck bill like extensions on them. Also purchased the full metal VVSS suspension and drive wheels.

So all that installed nicely and adds a nice bit of weight to the tank, the tracks if I recall had like 77 links. The tank when moving now moves straight, but throws a track when turning. In stock form with plastic suspension it went straight and turned fine.

Step 1: I removed one link down to 76. Put that back on. Tank now turns without throwing a track but the track tension is a bit too tight with the tighter spring rate on the metal suspension. And it veers right when moving forward.

Step 2: I take all the suspension apart, compress each spring in a vice for a few seconds. This reduces the spring rate very slightly and softens the springs, when fully assembled the tank now actually floats on the suspension vs being fully propped up on the fully extended springs. The tank now sits more like a real Sherman would judging from pics I've seen of them stationary in fields. The added bonus, was now the track tension seemed perfect. Only one problem, the tank still veers slightly right. I went back to 77 links but knew that would not work after the spring rate mods, it did drive straight again but threw a track when turning.

Step 3: I throw a minor tantrum , and come here for advice after counting to 10! Trying to find a happy medium here and running out of ideas. Not sure any amount of trim would work from the controller, I've messed with that already to no effect. I've reinforced the rear idler wheels by adding a screw through the rear (on the mount to the chassis) to further secure them in place along with crazy glue. I noticed these appeared under some tension (just generally, stock or otherwise) and were trying to splay outwards at the back making the idlers look like they wanted to snow plow (toe in). The screws hold them square against the rear of the chassis.

So not sure what to do, I can probably live with it moving right and just correct every so often but I'd much prefer a tank that goes straight when I tell it to. Or it becomes an expensive burned-out smoking hulk on the battle field.

Thanks all!

[ALPHA]

Hello Bft... are all your links free moving? it could also be your idler... never liked the design on the metal Mato idler..so I've never really used it
another problem I've heard of ..but not experienced is that the Mato bogies actually hit and rub on each other in certain maneuvers ..another I've been told about is that "follower" behind the guide rollers...they are not the same dimensions as the plastic Matos ...so filing off a little might help as well

Good Luck

Happy Tanking

ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning,
BFT, are you using metal MATO sprockets and idlers as well as the metal bogies and road wheels? I ask because I use the MATO metal T-74 tracks, sprockets and idlers on my HL M4A3. There was an issue with the tank veering right but some massaging ( careful sanding of the sprocket joins to get a flat connection between them ) of the sprockets corrected that to the point where normal trim on the controller eliminated it. Another point to address on the metal tracks is to line them up on edge and use a rubber mallet to ensure that all track pins are seated and the tracks are all in a line. This helps eliminate the issue of thrown tracks at the idler. I use 78 links per side and reinforced the idler mount with small metal washers. They help with the toe-in issue as well as smooth out rotations. I did the same work with the plastic tracks, sprockets and idlers on the M4A1 and got similar good results. Good luck and remember to have fun.
regards,
Painless

[BFT2002]

Oh, thanks Alpha. So yeah I'll recheck the metal bits, I did have one wheel binding and filed the inside of the socket down so it would roll more freely. Thought I had solved the mystery but not so much, I have been constantly fiddling withe the tracks and am pretty sure they all move freely. Had a few kinks but ironed them out. At full speed on blocks for instance I see no flaws in the track pattern that you'd see if there was even a minor kink causing a slight waver in the track pattern - when looking from the side that is.

And thanks Painless as well for that info. I'll check that. Now that you mention it I could have some minor deficiencies in the alignment at a few points that are adding up to a slight yaw in my track.

[BFT2002]

Yes to this BTW:

"using metal MATO sprockets and idlers as well as the metal bogies and road wheels"

The entire suspension and track setup is the Mato metal stuff. T-49 tracks which look pretty rad with the cast hull. I'd love to see a metal chassis for this tank though at the least one day, some of the VVSS have a bit too much play in them where they mount into the chassis (may contribute to the veering issue) and those rear idlers mounted on plastic don't give me the warm and fuzzies. I may glue the VVSS parts into the chassis since I have no plans to replace them. Or somehow shim them from the inside, or glue gun injected into the inside of the sockets since it should hold but also be removable in the future more easily.

[ALPHA]

DANG this post lol... after I replied to you BFT ...went to put some miles on my Sherman... worked fine for a few minutes then the right side track jammed against the upper hull ..................The curse of Murphy was upon me ...several thoughts did run through my mind since we had just gone through a good discussion with trouble shooting concerns .... with the thought of DANG that's a lot of work in the back of my mind I immediately racked her up....I left her jammed as I put her up on my rack...I couldn't see anything terribly wrong.. it's just the track had bunched and clogged the gap between the sprocket and hull...I am running the T49s a little loose on that tank.. so at first I thought it could be that...but before I went to counting links.. I thought.. it didn't do it before... so that can't be the problem...
So I flicked the bind with my fingers and the bind fell back into place ...or sat down how it should...I then took the cover off the Sprocket thinking I'd disassemble the side just to be sure ... come to find out.. there was my problem.... the allen bolt that holds the outer sprocket on had come uncomfortably loose...allowing the two halves to separate while moving forward (in reverse the screw would tighten so it ran ok)...apparently the contact cement that I used to secure the cover ...had "webbed" to the bolt... and while moving forward would unscrew the thing...so I tightened her up.. and she's all good now

Lesson learned... always remember what you did ... as after I did the fix... I remembered I had just put the covers on a couple of weeks ago...to where she ran fine without them After thought for sure... but still a realization

Happy Tanking

ALPHA