TAMIYA M1A2 Displaymodel

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Postby BarryC » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:03 am

Hi guys,

Without starting a battle I would like to throw my "2 cents" into this discussion.

While researching my M1A1HA build I have acquired a dozen or so publications mostly geared to providing modelers with data and photos. So between them and a hundred or so photos from online sources mainly Prime Portal I have looked at nearly 400 photos. These include all versions on the A1 and A2 as well as all SEP versions. I have spent close to a hundred or more hours studying and think I can say conclusively that making hard statements about a specific version is like saying all leopards have the same spot pattern! I have been modeling one of two specific M1A1 HA with TUSK 1 protection package and I had to chose one or the other due to variations between the two. Both served together but have slightly different configurations.

I also have in my possession three different 1/35 kits of what is billed the same versions, but yet they are different. I have three different 1/16 kits, Heng Long M1A2, Tamiya M1A2 "static kit" and the Trumpeter M1A1. The level of detail and molding of the upper hull and turret are a lot a like. There are some odd differences in what is and is not included. IMO the level of detail for 1/16 scale is underwhelming on all.

The three are very different basically in how they are engineered because they are directed at a specific market.
Heng Long is targeted at the RTR market while the Tamiya is targeted at those wanting top shelf engineering and willing to build and the Trumpeter kit is a Static model pure and simple.

I can say that had the Tamiya kit been available when I started I would have chosen it for the engineering and the molding in styrene plastic. :clap: It would have still needed the detail work but I would have saved hours and hours making the chassis acceptable. I think when I tally up the dollars I've spent on structural rework, metal upgrades and electronics it will come close to the cost of the Tamiya FO kit.

I have learned to HATE the HL plastic, it is crap to work with but for its' targeted market it is solid. I have spent close to 100 hours bringing the HL chassis and drive train up to acceptable quality. The Tamiya starts out that way and I have considered using the Tamiya chassis under my HL hull and may do so at some point.

Just My Two Cents Worth,
Barry
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Postby tankme » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:31 am

Not talking about the mine plow mount that goes on the nose. I was talking about the mine plow electrical connection box by the driver's hatch, but that is neither here nor there. The tanks do get mods throughout their life cycle and through refits. I agree with that also. I have owned the HL for years before Tamiya even announced their version so I built what I had already bought. I was aware of what I was getting with the HL. I have built my own tanks from scratch so upgrading something is not out of my wheelhouse. The gearboxes have been upgraded, the control board has been replaced, and I don't find the plastic as bad as you are alluding to, but to each his own. I have used Tamiya Thin solvent for most of my build and superglue for any metal parts. Can't use solvent for the metal parts. The problem is that if you want it to "fuse" to the HL you need to sand the paint off first. The paint will cause the solvent problems with adhesion.

Not being argumentative, but Tamiya does get it wrong sometimes. Their first releases of the Abrams in 1/35th scale actually had issues with barrel scale (too short). The turret and front glacis plate where also at the wrong angle. There were other issues with it also, but this post isn't about the 1/35 Tamiya release. I have a Tamiya 1/16 KV-2 kit I'm building. It's a very nice kit, but the KV-2 is a pretty basic tank. It's not hard to get it pretty close. I have had to make additions to that tank to ensure I don't have issues running it. And you do need to use superglue on Tamiya tanks sometimes. The track fender supports on the Tamiya are ABS plastic being bonded to styrene. Tamiya solvent won't work for that. I tried using Plastruct to get them to "fuse" and they wouldn't. I have two different types of Plastruct and neither worked. I guess to me the Tamiya tanks are supposed to be made for enthusiasts and I expect enthusiast level of detail for that kind of money. HL are basically toys, but can be made up to an enthusiast level. You are right that none of them are perfect. I will have a lot of money invested in my HL Abrams, but I don't plan on selling my Abrams. I know the whole debate about resale also. Tom asked what I thought was wrong with the Tamiya so I posted what I think is wrong with it. You may or may not think those things are important, but to me I was unwilling to abandon the work I've done on my HL in favor of another Abrams with some of the same issues my HL already had. Call me a rivet counter if you like, but I just wanted an Abrams built to a high level of detail for my own enjoyment. If everyone else enjoys it than all the better.

I'm just exchanging thoughts and ideas so no offense intended or felt by me. Good luck in your builds!

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Postby kintaroukinji » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi everyone.
I have made many 1/35 and 1/16 scale tank models. I understand that there are many versions for most tanks. When making a tank model as a hobby, it is free for anyone to make a model with any preference, and I have no intention to deny it. As far as my preference is concerned, I do not want to make a tank model that corresponds to a version that has never existed before, unless I make a tank model of SF, fiction and animation. For example, there were early, middle, and late versions even in Tiger II, but I often saw the Tiger II model that did not exist in the past as a result of mixing these version parts incorrectly . Mania who do not want to make such a model needs to collect information and materials of a real tank. This is also a pleasure for him as a hobby. This preference is closely related to the details of the model, but it is different from how much detail is expressed in the model. As long as the modeler does not scratch the model completely, it has no choice but to consider the price and choose the model of the manufacturer that was the most suitable for his taste at that time.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:26 am

It is well known that we can not hear band marches, commander voices and discharge sound of gun cartridge when we are by the tank during the actual operation. However, some enthusiasts also install the function to reproduce these sounds in order to enjoy their atmosphere and scene. Some enthusiasts think that such a function is unnecessary for tank models.
After all, it is a natural story, but the model and the controller to choose differ depending on what function mania emphasizes. I think that the discussion of which is good or which is bad should be greatly argued on the premise of thinking that it is the person's preference or importance. For those who do not match his tastes or important points, the claim can not be agreed.

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Postby Rad_Schuhart » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:36 am

Hi, I am one of those who love to play marches, tank commander voices, and all kind of sounds. In one of my tanks I play up to 220 sounds and I love all of them.

Unrealistic for some people? Yeah, maybe, but I absolutelly love it. People in meetings loves it too, and you can absolutelly see the public preffers those tanks able to make more things.

For example sometimes I do convoys, and the tank that is in front keeps shouting instructions to the rest like Turn right! turn left!, attack!, slowly, faster! enemy spotted! and things like that. (limit is your imagination) so it is pretty cool to have a platoon commander giving the instructions to the rest at my will. In real life you`d heard that too.

If that is not enough, horns, radio chatter, ambient sounds, artillery strikes... That is a BIG part of the fun for me. As I said, some people dont like it, but for me it is an absolute must. A need. In fact a tank without tons of functions is boring for me and stays in the shelf. (Sorry, I dont prettend to offend anybody, but is like that for me).

And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.
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Postby kintaroukinji » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:16 am

Rad_Schuhart wrote:Hi, I am one of those who love to play marches, tank commander voices, and all kind of sounds. In one of my tanks I play up to 220 sounds and I love all of them.

Unrealistic for some people? Yeah, maybe, but I absolutelly love it. People in meetings loves it too, and you can absolutelly see the public preffers those tanks able to make more things.

For example sometimes I do convoys, and the tank that is in front keeps shouting instructions to the rest like Turn right! turn left!, attack!, slowly, faster! enemy spotted! and things like that. (limit is your imagination) so it is pretty cool to have a platoon commander giving the instructions to the rest at my will. In real life you`d heard that too.

If that is not enough, horns, radio chatter, ambient sounds, artillery strikes... That is a BIG part of the fun for me. As I said, some people dont like it, but for me it is an absolute must. A need. In fact a tank without tons of functions is boring for me and stays in the shelf. (Sorry, I dont prettend to offend anybody, but is like that for me).

And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.


I also enjoy various sounds around the tank with the RC tank model. I think that it would be best in terms of performance to assemble the RC tank kit according to the manufacturer's instructions, but it is difficult for me to add more functions if I am not satisfied with the sound and other functions. In that case, I have no choice but to use a third party controller without using the manufacturer's default controller. I use the RC kit display model or the inexpensive HL model for tank hull to modify. Of course I also enjoy detailing up and painting at the same time.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Sat May 04, 2019 5:03 am

I made a 1/16 scale CROWS M1A2 mount base referring to 3D images and 1/35 scale photographs of DragonModel. The material is 2mm t and 1mm t plastic plate. As for the spring in the hinge, it would have been better if I had a spring of a beautiful shape that matched this size, but I did not have it, so I wound the brass wire around the rod to make the spring.
Attachments
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Postby yan33 » Sat May 04, 2019 8:04 am

excellent :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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Postby kintaroukinji » Sat May 04, 2019 11:14 am

Thank you.

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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sat May 04, 2019 1:28 pm

Superb work. :thumbup:
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Sat May 04, 2019 2:32 pm

That looks fantastic :clap: :clap:
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Postby Rad_Schuhart » Sat May 04, 2019 6:12 pm

Eastern Front wrote:
Rad_Schuhart wrote:
And a small correction, tamiya uses ABS in some parts too. For example the road wheels and return rollers of the Panzer IV.


I have built three of these so far, I can say the road wheels and return rollers are a Styrene type of plastic. I only say this because the glue I use does not work on ABS, its for Styrene and I use it when assembling my wheels, and it works on them. If they were ABS they would not bond at all.

Cheers!


That is not corret.

The road wheels and return rollers are indeed ABS. The color in the sprues is a bit different to the other sprues. When you take the parts away from the sprue, you can notice the plastic is way way harder than the rest of the parts styrene. I have read you should also Tamiya ABS glue for it (as I did and worked) And I thing the sprue also says ABS.

Nothing wront there. Even better, if the return rollers were styrene they would wear way faster than if they were ABS.

Some more info here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tank ... tions.html

Take a look at all tamiya manuals and builds, I think the Leopard also comes with ABS parts.
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Postby mutt71 » Sun May 05, 2019 2:53 am

I really enjoy the work that everyone does on this board. I also respect everyone's opinion, likes and dislikes, etc. To each their own and Carpe Diem! Just MHO.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Mon May 20, 2019 3:05 am

DSC_1611_01.JPG
Resting for CROWS
I continue to detail Tamiya M1A2 Abrams little by little. Now that the M153 CROWS mount is ready for installation, I used an LED chip to synchronize the flicker and sound of the M2 machine gun. It is a video of M2 machine gun.

phpBB [video]


There are still many parts to detail in this model. The black one on the turret is resting when CROWS is folded sideways and stowed.

I have rebuilt the simplified fender holddown torsion bar by integral molding. In the real tank, there is a case that the side end of the track is inserted into the bar as a weight to suppress the bar and the fender from jumping up.

I added a driver's hatch stopper. The handle of the filler cap is a simplified integral molding, so I cut it out and remade it with brass wire.

Many handles of the original model are integrally molded or simplified and have strange shape. The toolbox handles at the top and bottom of the turret are simplified as a one-piece rectangular projection. In particular, if the lid of the toolbox below the turret is a hinge type, the lid can not be opened depending on the position of the turret, so turning this handle will unlock the internal lock and the entire lid will come out. These handles are unique in shape, so I rebuilt them.

The number of handles in the Abrams tank is not more than that of the Type 10 tank, but since there are still many, I have no enthusiasm to remake everything, so I remake only the handrails that stand out to be molds.
Attachments
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Fender hold down torsion bar
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Drivers hatch stopper and cap handle
DSC_1641_01.JPG (91.82 KiB) Viewed 1349 times
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Tool box handle
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Tool box handle

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Postby kintaroukinji » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:05 am

It is a continuation of detailing up. I added bolts at the top of the side skirt. These bolts will not be visible if I attach the Explosive Reactive Armor to the side skirts, but now I have no perseverance to add up there.
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In this model, the triangle cable duct near the range finder is interrupted halfway. It is a unnatural and strange shape. In the old 1/35 Tamiya M1A2 model, there are some terminal boxes at the end of the cable duct. The cable duct disappears on the 1/16 model. This is an obvious omission. It has nothing to do with the strength of RC tanks.
After all, I scratched the cable duct with a plastic board.
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I added a tank infantry phone box and a slave cable terminal box.
I added a remote control terminal box and cable to the side of the CROWS machine gun. It looks like the feeling of detail has improved a little. The world of self-satisfaction!
DSC_1664_01.JPG

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I will install the anti-sniper gun barrel coaxial gun (3D printed product). This has not been fixed to the shield yet and has been temporarily placed, but if it is installed, it is also necessary to make a cable duct that leads to this.
However, this cable duct needs to be movable so as not to prevent the barrel from moving up and down.
DSC_1674_01.JPG
Last edited by kintaroukinji on Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:33 am

For the detail improvement of the Tamiya 1 / 16 M1A2 Abrams display model, I started to work around the Loaders hatch. There are many abbreviated and simplified parts here, but I need to decide how far to remodel. I would like to detail up at least the part expressed by M1A2 of MengModel. I referred to this real tank photo published by MengModel.

A shield that surrounds the Loader's M240 machine gun area. Because the protective shield in front of the machine gun has a fairly special shape, it took time to fully scratch. Thick bulletproof glass is in both the outside and the inside. The bulletproof glass is slid in from the top, and the top is held and bolted with the cover. I made this with plastic material. Since the boundary between the vertical and horizontal parts is an oblique cut shape, the plate material is bonded vertically, the triangular plastic bar is bonded to the corner, and the diagonal cut is made from the outside. I used a 1.7mm transparent plastic plate for the bulletproof glass part. There is also a protective shield on the side of the machine gun. Inside this shield, a diamond mesh is attached over the bulletproof glass. According to the commentary, this wire mesh protects the glass from errant feet stepping on it when this shield is folded down.
Since this machine gun is often attached with a sightscope, I also scratched it.
In addition, a protective plate is attached to the left and bottom of the gun seat. I have scratched these parts.
Attachments
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M240 Loader's shield
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DSC_shield1_549.JPG
DSC_shield8_548.JPG
Loaders shield.jpg
real tank photo published by MengModel

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Postby kintaroukinji » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:14 am

This is a coaxial machine gun that I got from Shapeways of 3D printer.

However, the size and shape of the ammunition box are strange. The width is narrow and the length is abnormally long to store 12.7 mm ammo. The upper part of the cartridge receiver is not open. I can not use it as it is, so I cut them and scratch it again with a plastic plate.  I made amunition to cut a 1 mm brass rod and bite it into a mini router to form a tip. They were placed and glued on black 0.3 mm t plastic strips at equal intervals, and a strip of printing paper was applied on top of them.
If you need flexibility for ammo belt, make both sides of paper instead of plastic. This method is useful. (More sophisticated 1 / 16th scale ammunition is also available but expensive.)

Because the barrel moves up and down, this cable duct also needs a hinge in the middle. (Same for actual tanks)
In addition, this model has a structure that removes the upper part of the turret, so the junction box of this cable duct can be removed.

I thought that this machine gun would also be able to emit sound synchronously and that the light attached to the machine gun could also be turned on (USM-HL-2 would be easy to add these functions as long as wiring and LED could be installed), but as for now I will refrain from working so hard. I would like to conclude by making an additional bustle rack at the rear of the turret and modifying the useless part of this model.
Attachments
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coaxial machine gun( Shapeways of 3D printer)
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Coaxial machine gun rebuilt ammo box
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Cable duct and junction box for coaxial machine guns
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This shows the state with the junction box removed. The junction box is fixed by inserting it into the hole on the turret from above.
DSC_1841_562.JPG

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Postby HERMAN BIX » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:41 am

Sensational work mate. Sure is a lot of details on these modern things !
Thanks for sharing your pics,.
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Postby BarryC » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:50 am

Coming along nicely sir. :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Postby kintaroukinji » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:23 pm

HERMAN BIX wrote:Sensational work mate. Sure is a lot of details on these modern things !
Thanks for sharing your pics,.


Thank you for your comment.

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