SU '85 AN-BRI-RAMINATOR PROJECT

This section is for builds that are not strictly Tamiya or Heng Long. For instance, replacing the electronics from a WSN or Matorro, or even a scratch-build.

Postby HERMAN BIX » Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:42 am

I thought I would make a new thread on the actual build completion of this seldom modeled tank destroyer.
As in the previous thread begun by Mr Raminator, I've chosen a version of the SU-85 that is pictured with Panther roadwheels replaced on its running gear.
Allegedly this was an expedient measure due to the shortage of replacement wheels carried out by field workshop units at the time.
I am going to take a bit of creative licence and make a supposition that the practice was wider spread than we think, and that the innovative & hard pressed Soviet support mechanics came up with a way to keep their guns in the fight & did so at every opportunity.

At the moment I've not decided on the period timing or any specific vehicle, but the research begins in earnest now to do so if possible.

I had intended to run the Taigen V3 system in it, just to get the right sound. The Taigen Russian tank sound is fantastic when put through a good speaker. But, now I've done 2 H/L 6.1s set ups, I am telling myself to cope with the sound difference by using the T90 set and getting the advantage of servo control. Again, this is not 100% decided either :problem:

Anyway................Im off to rip apart a perfectly good toy like the kid next door in Toy Story !! 8O
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:11 am

Well, after an hour or so of rough work with my normal tools, I have 3 wheels pairs with Panther outer roadwheels fitted.
Drill the Panther wheels out to 9mm for the Taigen bearing to the depth of the bearing plus a bit for luck.
Sliced the rear of the mounting hub off the wheel leaving a 4mm long stub that goes into the Raminator printed inner wheel.
Punched in the bearing.
Dressed a couple of flats on the short stub and ran the file around the stub to reduce the diameter by .5mm/side.
While not factory perfect, they are near enough.

The track guide horns will not touch the inside of the Panther wheels, but as Im putting these custom pairs in the middle of each side, the main deflection on the first & last wheels should hold in line.

The diameter is about half to 1mm larger on the Panther wheel, but that wont matter I think.
There is enough slop in the H/L suspension componentry that both wheels will still contact the track.
A minor but annoying point is the lovely hub caps that Mr Raminator made to snap fit into the printed wheels wont snap in to Tamiya Panther wheels :/ So I'm yet to figure out a simple & reliable way of holding them on. :think:
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:40 pm

Being the pest that I am to myself, could not let things be & got on with other small jobs to get this thing looking a bit more like it.
As is a must with all T34 mods, the H/L rear transmission cover and louvered armour beneath need to be done properly.
Out with a small drill to punch the corners into the plastic mesh.
Sliced carefully with a cutting blade on my power hobbytool & a shower of green plastic & out they came.
The rest was dressed with a lot of filing & sanding.
I've got some Taigen brass mesh to fit in.

The louvers were chucked together out of scrap brass flat sheet and tube.
Cut to length, the flat was dressed to suit the opening then cross bars were solder pasted across with 8mm sticking out both ends.
Tube that telescoped over the cross bars was cut & slid over each end.
Super glue held them in place.
Its a good mod to do for looks alone, but also to allow more sound out of the hull, and any heat from the motors out during extended running.
Cheap & cheerful but adds a lot I reckon.
I also filled in the sockets for the unused smoke canister brackets as the late SU85's which this is, they were not fitted.
The H/L molded conduits for the release cable for them were also carefully ground off.
I will cover the marks with Mr Surfacer and putty as required.

Im fitting a 6.1s control system into this & will use the 3rd sound set(T90/T72) for this. Yeah, I know, its not right, but, for the control on offer and the servo option, plus the fact a set is available here for AUD$111 posted, I'm willing to compromise on perfect sound.
Trust me, Id rather have the Taigen V3 sound, but Taigen does not support servos plus they still require the large all-in-one elevation/recoil unit.
Not that they are no good, I have them in plenty of my H/L tanks, again they are simply not available here and need to be imported = time & money better used in other areas.
Unlike the pristine T34 of Mr Rams I have left as intended, this one is going to get a 'munting' so it feels a lot more like a roughy that I assimilate with ;)
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Postby c.rainford73 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:15 pm

Herman excellent work on the louvers and those panther wheels are an excellent idea. :thumbup:
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Postby Herr Dr. Professor » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:39 pm

Oh, Boy! :thumbup: Here goes Bix again with another brilliant model. I will be interested in the information you get on the real one, too. I should not be surprised that road wheels might be scavenged by resourceful mechanics.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:20 am

http://armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/WWII/T34/tam ... 2.jpg.html

You will need to translate it, but this is the idea.
They also did the SU-85 as pictured.
This is the one I am basing mine on.
I will add a conglomeration of many machines into the one, but this is the fundamental machine I want to copy.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:56 am

Just had a thought...........what about paint on the Panther wheels ?
Ive done them in a plain German Dark yellow & they stick out like a Bulldogs youknowwhats against the green background so I had a thought that maybe if the Russian support group that pulled off the repair was well set up enough, surely they would have had paint to blend them ???

What do you guys reckon ? Brush paint a bit of 4BO over the yellow leaving some visible ?
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Postby tankme » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:09 am

Also a perfect green color match wouldn't be necessary as the tank and wheels would've been painted at a different time.

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Postby Ad Lav » Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:35 am

Interesting project! Were they roughly the same diameter?

How many are you replacing with Panther wheels?

I’d put an odd one in dunkel gelb or red oxide? and another with camouflage on the other side. Once weathered it’ll look fine. One of them with a thin coat of 4BO would look good?
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:48 am

Thanks for the common sense advice lads.
I can certainly chuck a camo pattern on one, and a 4BO rough cover over one, and the single on the other side could also be camo just to break up the green.
I have run out of Tamiya Panther outer road wheels.
2 went on the turret flanks of 111 and 3 are on this.
I gave another 2 away to a mate for a very cool build he’s doing which also needs them on the turret flanks.
I just need to figure out how to properly mount the hub caps on these though. :think:

They look right at home here ;)
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Postby Dr Phibes » Sun Nov 28, 2021 1:16 pm

Herman, I don't know if this helps but regarding the Taigen V3 sounds/MFU the stock Taigen Panther I got from RCTanks.de runs a V3 with servo recoil and elevation. I haven't pulled it down yet but, as far as I understand and can see, Taigen use a small board (analogue to digital or some such I'm guessing) to power and control the servos. How it's wired I don't know at present. Still, perhaps the board can be sourced from Taigen or somewhere as an upgrade if you really want to keep the V3 Russian sounds?
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Postby Herr Dr. Professor » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:23 pm

Some months ago, Taigen/Torro released expensive versions of some of their tanks equipped with V3 and servos; others are equipped with V3 and smoking barrels. Apparently, alas, both options are not available together. Here are some examples:

Jagdpanther with servo: https://www.torro-shop.de/1-16-RC-Jagdpanther-tarn-IR-Servo

Beutepanzer KV-2 with smoke: https://www.torro-shop.de/1-16-RC-KV-2-754r-tarn-IR-Rauch

Beutepanzer KV-2 with servo: https://heng-long-panzer.de/de/1-16-RC-KV-2-754-r--tarn-IR-Servo-Torro-Pro-Edition.html

Ioseph Stalin with smoke: https://heng-long-panzer.de/de/1-16-RC-IS-2-1944-gruen-IR-Rauch-Torro-Pro-Edition.html
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Postby General Jumbo01 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:34 pm

Mr Bix, you must try to keep up! ;)

If you take a look at my SU100 posts in the thread we all hijacked a couple of months ago, you can see that l used a Taigen v3 mfu and sound module and both the mfu and hobby standard micro servos to carry out all the functions l wanted.

By using a good hobby standard radio system, such as the budget 10 channel Flysky FS-IS-X and one of their 10ch receivers, you can use the supplied cables to connect the up to 6 receiver channels to the mfu sockets (the manual tells you what channels to connect to which sockets but it's actually self configurable) which leaves you 4 or more free channels to control your own servos, light and function switching modules etc.

By using the suite of powerful channel 'mixing' functions on the transmitter you can, for example, use channel 4 to fire the cannon on the mfu, giving you the Taigen sound plus if you chose, the IR, recoil via the stock supplied module or you can link say Chanel 7 to follow Ch 4 to operate a servo or two to get those functions. This works for all the other operations so retaining the mfu based sounds but allowing you to add and use your own electronic gizmos! The SU 85 and 100 has enough internal space to fit in a cinema organ (unlike the early T34 turrets) so there's plenty of space for extra servos, control rods etc.

You'll also find, btw, that driving control improves enormously using the hobby standard radio with the v3 mfu putting it above the HL V6 and upwards, a great bonus.

Hope this helps you and others :thumbup:
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:55 am

Appreciate the info fellas, its just that im not real smart when it comes to that electronic voodoo & the idea of programming a radio is like speaking Swahili while gargling marbles (oooh a bit like a Glaswegian sounds when full of Scotch :O )
I will certainly have a sniff around it though.

I was thinking about paint on this just now...............not a lot of options as we know, but the way the thing looks and its stance, Im almost inclined to go with Pearl Chameleon metallic and racing stripes :wtf:
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Postby Raminator » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:48 am

An-Bri-Raminator is a hell of a portmanteau, it rolls off the tongue! :haha: I know you'll do Andreas' memory proud with this build, Herman.

Excellent work fitting the Panther wheels, it's a really unique look. Perfect for a war-weary machine beaten half to hell and back! Let me know if the different rolling diameters are a problem, I'll print some replacement tyres that match the Panther's. If you get me the inner diameter of the Panther hubs, I can do you some T-34 hubcaps to suit them too. It looks like they project out some distance from the Panther wheel, they must be attached to the T-34's wheel hub.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:23 am

They would stick out as per the period pictures but there is not a lot of room in the Tamiya wheel to play with.
So they are not quite spot on for positioning.
I have gone a fair way back to go forwards , ripped to bits a lot of your hard work.
The BB unit had to go.
So I sliced the bottom off it, retaining the upper bit with the piston arrangement .
I will think of how to join the barrel to this for recoil somehow.
Elevation mounts broke during testing so the standard HL unit was sent to the d so pares box to be replaced with a servo.
I stuffed a smoker in the front which I will run hoses from to the rear , and a small V6 speaker which is reasonable without being a Visatron !!

Bits and bobs done as well like auxiliary fuel tanks being dressed & made ready to dent, and I sliced the lid off one of the tool boxes to make it open a bit with stuff showing out of it.
Blacked out the engine compartment that can be seen through the mesh & louvers, I can’t stand bright bits through engine decks!
Little things.
Took the advice of Mr Lav & banged a quick cam job onto two of the Panther wheels, leaving the other plain gelb.
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Postby Ad Lav » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:28 am

Looking good :)

Subtle and not the in your face, brand new look.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:36 am

Ad Lav wrote:Looking good :)

Subtle and not the in your face, brand new look.


Thanks Mr Lav, once the usual weathering caper is carried out no doubt they will blend in better again.
Good Idea mate, Im a bit miffed as to why I didnt think of that myownself :/
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:59 am

The carnage of removing the BB mechanism behind me, I came up with a plan on how to use the basic functionality of the remnants to use as a recoil system, and preserving the pre-made mounting that Mr Raminator had already made to get it into the resin An-Bri casemate.
The front part of the BB unit which is a the loading chute for the ammo, now acts as a low friction sleeve for the metal barrel.
Of course to ensure I have a plan-B if required, the barrel is removable.
I used a couple of brass tubes that telescope over each other to go inside the barrel secured by a Taigen suspension grub screw put into the hole normally used to vent the air from the BB shot.Tapped it 3mm & the screw goes onto the brass tube nice & solid.
I bored out the piston to take the other end of the brass sleeve, and after a bit of testing & setting, secured that with Gel super glue.
Once the case halves are joined together, after a little bit of lube on the sliding areas, the lot should work a treat with the servo hooked up.
No need for miles of recoil stroke, as long as it recoils ;)
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:16 pm

http://www.allworldwars.com/T-34%20Tank ... anual.html

Just in case anyone wants to know how to fix one !!

I was looking for confirmation of what was the usual contents of the side mounted tool boxes on these tanks.
I can assume that one had track repair tools in it, and the tensioning equipment in the other perhaps?
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