Taigen Panzer III Lower RPM Higher Torque Motors Scale Speed

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Postby Martin2556 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:08 am

Taigen Panzer III Lower RPM Higher Torque Motors Scale Speed

Hi, I have a Taigen 1/16 Panzer III (metal chassis, tracks & running gear).
I am looking at the possibly of changing the original motors on the 3:1 gearbox’s for lower RPM higher torque motors to try & achieve a more scale like speed. Reading through the forums I see that the Igarashi N2738-51 motors come up quite often.
Any recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Cheers Martin
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:22 am

G'day Mr 2556, sometimes lower RPM motors are not as effective as lower ratio gear box units.
Rpm can be controlled to a degree by an easing of the throttle stick, but once things kick in, your tank runs to fast.
gear box replacements to a 4.1 or 5.1 ration will allow an even greater level of control, hey, if those are combined with these motors you mentioned, who knows how slow you could get it to go ;)
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Postby Kaczor » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:18 am

In case of Panzer III there is room for modification of gearbox. My father modified last gear. It required some cutting an using lathe for new shaft. Now it have lower speed, bigger torque and lower usage o power. Photos before and after.
xPphje.jpg

ApgkCd.jpg
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Postby Max-U52 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:54 pm

Hello Martin, and welcome aboard from the Motor City. First I should let you know that you really ought to go to the introduce yourself section and post a thread there. The guys here consider that the polite way to do things, first introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself, and then ask all the questions you want.

As for your Panzer 3, I have several of them, so I know that the four shaft gearboxes won't really fit in there, so what I use are the Dual ratio black steel gear boxes, the ones that they call "5:1". That's not the real gear ratio, it's just kind of a made-up name that the manufacturers came up with so they could tell the different gear boxes apart. Now, those 5 to 1 gear boxes are no good for anything except a small light tank like a panzer three. I've put them in many Panzer threes and Panzer fours with no problem, but when I tried to put one in a KT it just wouldn't work. Any way you decide to go, changing the gear boxes is a much better solution to your problem than changing the motors.
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Postby midlife306 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Out of interest what board is in your Pz III?
I ask because I picked up an old Heng long version from Hobbyking for £45 a while back & it thinks it’s a dragster, the old school board that’s in it is either full blast or nothing lol
I bought a HL Tiger 1 just before Xmas which had the new V6 board in it & it drives brilliantly, the really slow speed control is on another level.
Cheers
Wayne


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Postby Martin2556 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:54 pm

Many thanks to all for your informative reply’s.
This Panzer III is the latest I/R offering from Taigen (3:1 steel gearbox’s, metal chassis & turret, tracks & running gear), recently purchased from Dave at Forgebear (highly recommended).

The main reason for looking into fitting lower RPM / higher torque motors is the Panzer III will not accommodate the 4:1 (90:1 ratio) gearbox’s due to height restrictions, these gearbox’s would have been my first choice had it been possible to fit them.

The 5:1 (45:1 ratio) gearbox’s & 3:1 (39:1 ratio) gearbox’s are fairly close in ratios & don’t slow down the tank sufficiently with out changing the motors, hence the main reason for considering lower RPM / higher torque motors.

Reading through the forums I see that the Igarashi N2738-51 & Promax 480 motors come up quite often.

I may fit the 5:1 gearbox’s but not sure as I’ve read mixed reviews about them, mainly that they are still too fast & not a great improvement on the 3:1 gearbox’s ratios.

Ideally I’m looking for a ratio that’s close to the 4:1 gearbox’s (90:1) with plenty of torque & hopefully a tank that performs more realistically to scale & less like a toy.
Cheers Martin
Last edited by Martin2556 on Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby MITCH » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:00 pm

The kind of gearbox is important, but the electronic board is as much important !
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Postby Max-U52 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:09 pm

Martin2556 wrote:
The 5:1 (45:1 ratio) gearbox’s & 3:1 (39:1 ratio) gearbox’s are fairly close in ratios & don’t slow down the tank sufficiently with out changing the motors, hence the main reason for considering lower RPM / higher torque motors.


Who told you that? The "3:1" is what should have come in your tank. There is a significant difference in top speed between those two sets of gearboxes. The PIII is one of my favorite tanks (I have several) and I've tried many different gearboxes. I think you said you have the Taigen metal edition PIII, yes? I have a couple of those. The stock GBs are like a rabbit, way too fast, eh? With the PIII I'm looking for a top speed of about 25 mph (scale) and I get very close. My Tauchpanzer has the dual ratio (what they call 5:1) gearboxes but they're the cherished brass jobs that come with 360 motors. When I had those in my StuG III (same lower) I had to replace the 360s with 380s to get up to 25 mph (40 kph). Anyway, how big a hurry are you in? I'm putting those in one of my new PIIIs soon, I can let you know how it turns out.

Watch this and see what you think.

phpBB [video]
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Postby Martin2556 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:57 am

Many Thanks Gary
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Postby Martin2556 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:03 am

midlife306 wrote:Out of interest what board is in your Pz III?
I ask because I picked up an old Heng long version from Hobbyking for £45 a while back & it thinks it’s a dragster, the old school board that’s in it is either full blast or nothing lol
I bought a HL Tiger 1 just before Xmas which had the new V6 board in it & it drives brilliantly, the really slow speed control is on another level.
Cheers
Wayne


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I’m not sure what board this tank has Wayne, it’ll be whatever’s fitted as standard to Taigen tanks.
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Postby Max-U52 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:48 am

Taigen only has three different boards, V1, turret rotation is stop and go, you can't control the speed at which it rotates, V2, can use hobby grade TX, proportional turret rotation, separate sound card for different tanks. Turn smoke on/off from TX, pushbutton MG, V3, same as V2 except adds the ability to turn off the track recoil. If you have a toggle switch to fire the machine gun it's a V1.

Here's three different Panzer IIIs with three different kinds of off the shelf gearboxes.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


Hope that helps

:wave: :wave: :wave:
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Postby Jimster » Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:40 am

Most excellent videos! Thank you. I wish more folks would post videos.

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Postby Martin2556 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:15 am

Many thanks Gary for taking the time to make the videos, very helpful to see how the three different gearbox’s perform in direct comparison.
It’s a shame the brass gearbox’s are no longer available.
Cheers Martin
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Postby Max-U52 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:33 pm

No problem, I wanted to know myself anyway. So I found a pretty cool speed calculator on line and it works out that the stock gear boxes have a top speed of 36 miles per hour, the brass have a top speed of 18 miles per hour and the steel dual ratio (5:1) gear boxes have a top speed of 29 miles per hour.

The brass are just a little bit slow but they're still my favorite. They definitely handle the best. Hmmm, I should run all three of them through the climbing test in the ditch and see how they do. Stay tuned. 8)
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Postby Martin2556 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 am

Thanks Gary, Interesting to see & compare the scale speeds, the top road speed of a late Panzer III was around 25mph. It’ll be good to know how the different gearbox’s perform & compare regarding torque on the climbing test & also how well they do off-road.
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Postby Max-U52 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:22 pm

So I also did some time trials on my new 76mm Sherman with 3:1 H/L GBs and it came in at just a hair over 20 mph. Probably the closest yet.

And here's a quick bit on gearboxes (old video, but still applies), most of which you probably already know, but there still might be a nugget or two in there.

phpBB [video]


I'm looking forward to hearing what you do with your PIII, so I hope you'll keep us posted. Also, have you given any thought to your next tank yet? You don't really think you'll have just one, do you? Bwahahahaha :haha: @) :/
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Postby Martin2556 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:55 pm

Thanks for putting up the video on gearbox’s Gary, I’ve a few tanks, I’m just finishing a complete rebuild on a Tamiya 1/16 full option Sherman that I purchased some time ago as a none runner, then I hope to make a start on the Panzer III, I’ll keep you posted.
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Postby Max-U52 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:11 pm

That's the lower hull I need for an E8. Looks good.

The comparison tests between brass and steel "5:1" GBs, but first the stock "3:1" in a PIV. Not impressed with the "3:1", but the steel dual ratio work great. Still about 5 scale mph too fast, but I can live with it.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]
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Postby Kaczor » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:18 am

This is stock Heng Long Panzer III with modyfied gearbox as I show in my first post.
phpBB [video]
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Postby Max-U52 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:25 am

That looks pretty good, but most guys don't have the option of modifying gears so their best bet is to just change the gearbox.

Unless you are offering to modify gears for people?
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