IR Combat systems.
Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:44 pm
updated 3/20/2012
In order to be compatible with pretty much every club around the world you need to have a "Tamiya compatible" IR system. Put simply your tank needs to meet the following criterion:
1) You can hit, and be hit by the Tamiya system.
2) Your tank has the same weight classes and 'reload time' as the Tamiya system.
3) Your tank has a visual means of showing it has been hit (LED lights)
4) Your tank has a visual means of showing it has fired (flash or recoil)
5) Your tank slows down as you take hits, until you are dead - at which point your tank should shutdown to signify this.
6) You should be able to receive hits at the same distance and angles as the Tamiya system (in Detroit we agreed that you only need to be able to take a hit as far as you could shoot, to allow for the hand made nature of the DBC apple). Put basically, your tank needs to be able to receive a hit from all angles from a range of 30ft, while being able to hit another tank at a similar distance.
7) Your Emitter (IR LED) must be mounted in a tube, that is a sung fit, and the tip of the 'bulb' is 9mm from the end of the tube. The idea is that your emitter beam is tight enough that it doesn't act like a search light and simultaniously hit multiple vehicles - including your team mates - remember that friendly fire isn't friendly!
ETO Armor sells Daryl Turner's machined emitter tubes for $10 + shipping, but Plastruct 6.4mm OD styrene tube works just as well if you have the space
Right now your options for compatibility as I understand things are:
1) David's Battle circuit:
Probably the most popular here, available as a kit direct from David here: http://darkith.dyndns.org/~darkith/html/dbc.shtml ~$100 for the kit
or ready assembled from here: http://www.rctankwars.com ~$150 assembled with a ready made cover/mounting for the receiver board, assembled wiring harness and pre-recorded sounds.
It comes in 2 flavours: the original DBC and the new version which gets variously refered to as DBCRC2HL, DBC2RC (and others )
The original DBC plugs in between the HL S&S receiver board and an S&S control board (Rx13, Rx14 or Rx18). it comes with an IR emitter and the receiver board (Davids Battle Unit - DBU). There is also an optional sound card that adds sounds for main gun firing and tank death.
The new version comes with all of the above, but allows you to ditch the HL transmitter and receiver in favour of a ground frequency (40MHz UK / 75MHz US) or 2.4GHz spread spectrum system (Futaba, HiTec and Spektrum are the most popular brands).
It also gives the user options like blocking the "tank recoil" feature when you fire the main gun, block the tanks ability to "super spin" (ie turn on the spot), and can add simulated "momentum" if you so wish. Weight class is selected by jumper on the original DBC, and via a set-up mode on the RC2HL. Once the tank is 'dead' there is a few seconds of it being immobile before it resets and starts over - I guess it depends on the 'rules of engagement' on the day as to whether you should shut the tank down or keep going at that point?
As a final point, the circuit is compatable with the Tamiya Battle Unit IR receiver tower which can be used in place of the DBU.
In Summary: Good entry level systems, but you need to make sure your wiring is sound with the DBCRC2
2) Tankhobby's system (reviewed here: http://www.rctankwarfare.com/Forums/ind ... w.html#new)www.tankhobby.com
($100 per system). Nick's system comes ready assembled and consists of the main control board, the firing trigger board, a sound card (probably the same as David's), the emitter and IR receiver board. You have to supply your own receiver tower housings for now, tho Nick is working on a simple housing himself (I ship my receiver boards out for rctankwars for Phil to 'mount and stuff' ). It does require a 'normal' receiver (and transmitter) to provide a channel for triggering the firing circuit, so it can't be used with a HL control board.
One drawback is that it doesn't slow the tank down like other systems do, and most clubs frown on this. It does however have a shutdown function in that once the system is "dead" the IR emitter ceases to function until the reset switch is pressed.
This makes the system idea for a static gun, which can be controlled via command line rather than via radio control.
Again you can plug in a TBU in place of the supplied IR receiver if you want/need to (via an interface board).
(update 24/10/2011 - looks like Nick has discontinued this product, I will update if I hear otherwise)
3) Imperial Modelbau's EGS (electronic gun effect sumulation)
(update 24/10/2011 - Discontinued)
Available from http://www.imperial-modellbau.de/ or http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/hl_egs.htm (Tankzone are the UK seller)
Pretty much more of the same, comes with the control board, firing trigger (it doesn't need an rc channel input like Tankhobby's circuit, I think you can tap into the feed to the airsoft motor (HL) or recoil motor (WS) - could somebody who has one please PM me and confirm this?) the emitter and the receiver tower (fully assembled and ready to install on your tank). There is no sound capability, but it does slow the tank down as it takes damage.
After testing, I can't recommend this unit. The sensitivity of the IR receptors is much less than that of the DBU and TBU (less than 40ft - vs 80ft) and the means of slowing the tank is rather crude (relay clicking on and off). It was a nice try when it first hit the market a few years ago, but there a better alternatives
4) El-Mod (Revised 24/10/11)
(Update 24/10/11 - removed defunct links, updated to reflect 4th Generation hardware)
http://www.el-mod.de/ or available in the US from http://www.rctankwars.com.
The basic system consists of the Thinktank module, the blaster sound card, and the CSI battle circuit.
The Thinktank comes in 2 flavours - ECO and Pro. The main difference is that the ECO is set up for a HL or Tam tank with motors for turret mechanics, while the Pro is aimed at more advanced users with servo's for elevation etc. The Pro can also trigger more sound effects, altho it requires a more sophisticated radio to do this.
Unlike the rest of the systems out there, El-Mod do offer the facility to reprogram the acceleration and top speed of the vehicle via their PC software and USB dongle interface - which is an improvement on the Jack Rabbit driving characteristics of 'certain other systems' IMHO...
The Blaster sound card uses a mini SD card to store the sound files, this allows the end user to switch between the supplied sounds or make their own. Instructions to switch sound sets come on the card, and are easy to follow if you are at least somewhat computer literate
The CSI battle add-on is another simple module to fit, but (like the DBU) in order to face a Tamiya Battle Unit fitted tank on even terms you need to build a baffle for the sensors to mimic the TBU's blind spots. This is not a difficult task, but one that needs a little patience and a lot of styrene sheet ...
That about covers your options for the Ready to Run tank market, so onto the Grand-daddy of them all:
Tamiya
The Tamiya set up consists of 3 parts:
DMD - controls main motors, turret traverse and gun elevation.
MFU - controls sounds, lights, gun flash, recoil, and the battle circuit.
TBU - add on which contains IR tower (aka the 'mushroom' or 'apple') and the IR emitter.
The DMD's are not tank specific, a Sherman or Tiger DMD will talk to a Pershing MFU for instance (Proved by the Detroit club)
The only sensibly priced places to get Tamiya electronic modules here in the UK is from ebay vendors in the far east. jr-rc in Japan is probably your best bet .
In addition to the DMD, MFU and TBU, you also need the comms cable - and if you want to retain some semblance of warranty support - the power splitter cable, recoil mechanism, bullet connectors for your drive motor cables and JST female connectors for your traverse and elevation motors. You can also assemble your own connectors for the TBU, recoil and IR/MG LED's by buying the individual pins for the molex mini plugs - I will make a thread on this later
RcTABU offerings
(I will update soon)
SLU
Comming soon
In order to be compatible with pretty much every club around the world you need to have a "Tamiya compatible" IR system. Put simply your tank needs to meet the following criterion:
1) You can hit, and be hit by the Tamiya system.
2) Your tank has the same weight classes and 'reload time' as the Tamiya system.
3) Your tank has a visual means of showing it has been hit (LED lights)
4) Your tank has a visual means of showing it has fired (flash or recoil)
5) Your tank slows down as you take hits, until you are dead - at which point your tank should shutdown to signify this.
6) You should be able to receive hits at the same distance and angles as the Tamiya system (in Detroit we agreed that you only need to be able to take a hit as far as you could shoot, to allow for the hand made nature of the DBC apple). Put basically, your tank needs to be able to receive a hit from all angles from a range of 30ft, while being able to hit another tank at a similar distance.
7) Your Emitter (IR LED) must be mounted in a tube, that is a sung fit, and the tip of the 'bulb' is 9mm from the end of the tube. The idea is that your emitter beam is tight enough that it doesn't act like a search light and simultaniously hit multiple vehicles - including your team mates - remember that friendly fire isn't friendly!
ETO Armor sells Daryl Turner's machined emitter tubes for $10 + shipping, but Plastruct 6.4mm OD styrene tube works just as well if you have the space
Right now your options for compatibility as I understand things are:
1) David's Battle circuit:
Probably the most popular here, available as a kit direct from David here: http://darkith.dyndns.org/~darkith/html/dbc.shtml ~$100 for the kit
or ready assembled from here: http://www.rctankwars.com ~$150 assembled with a ready made cover/mounting for the receiver board, assembled wiring harness and pre-recorded sounds.
It comes in 2 flavours: the original DBC and the new version which gets variously refered to as DBCRC2HL, DBC2RC (and others )
The original DBC plugs in between the HL S&S receiver board and an S&S control board (Rx13, Rx14 or Rx18). it comes with an IR emitter and the receiver board (Davids Battle Unit - DBU). There is also an optional sound card that adds sounds for main gun firing and tank death.
The new version comes with all of the above, but allows you to ditch the HL transmitter and receiver in favour of a ground frequency (40MHz UK / 75MHz US) or 2.4GHz spread spectrum system (Futaba, HiTec and Spektrum are the most popular brands).
It also gives the user options like blocking the "tank recoil" feature when you fire the main gun, block the tanks ability to "super spin" (ie turn on the spot), and can add simulated "momentum" if you so wish. Weight class is selected by jumper on the original DBC, and via a set-up mode on the RC2HL. Once the tank is 'dead' there is a few seconds of it being immobile before it resets and starts over - I guess it depends on the 'rules of engagement' on the day as to whether you should shut the tank down or keep going at that point?
As a final point, the circuit is compatable with the Tamiya Battle Unit IR receiver tower which can be used in place of the DBU.
In Summary: Good entry level systems, but you need to make sure your wiring is sound with the DBCRC2
2) Tankhobby's system (reviewed here: http://www.rctankwarfare.com/Forums/ind ... w.html#new)www.tankhobby.com
($100 per system). Nick's system comes ready assembled and consists of the main control board, the firing trigger board, a sound card (probably the same as David's), the emitter and IR receiver board. You have to supply your own receiver tower housings for now, tho Nick is working on a simple housing himself (I ship my receiver boards out for rctankwars for Phil to 'mount and stuff' ). It does require a 'normal' receiver (and transmitter) to provide a channel for triggering the firing circuit, so it can't be used with a HL control board.
One drawback is that it doesn't slow the tank down like other systems do, and most clubs frown on this. It does however have a shutdown function in that once the system is "dead" the IR emitter ceases to function until the reset switch is pressed.
This makes the system idea for a static gun, which can be controlled via command line rather than via radio control.
Again you can plug in a TBU in place of the supplied IR receiver if you want/need to (via an interface board).
(update 24/10/2011 - looks like Nick has discontinued this product, I will update if I hear otherwise)
3) Imperial Modelbau's EGS (electronic gun effect sumulation)
(update 24/10/2011 - Discontinued)
Available from http://www.imperial-modellbau.de/ or http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/hl_egs.htm (Tankzone are the UK seller)
Pretty much more of the same, comes with the control board, firing trigger (it doesn't need an rc channel input like Tankhobby's circuit, I think you can tap into the feed to the airsoft motor (HL) or recoil motor (WS) - could somebody who has one please PM me and confirm this?) the emitter and the receiver tower (fully assembled and ready to install on your tank). There is no sound capability, but it does slow the tank down as it takes damage.
After testing, I can't recommend this unit. The sensitivity of the IR receptors is much less than that of the DBU and TBU (less than 40ft - vs 80ft) and the means of slowing the tank is rather crude (relay clicking on and off). It was a nice try when it first hit the market a few years ago, but there a better alternatives
4) El-Mod (Revised 24/10/11)
(Update 24/10/11 - removed defunct links, updated to reflect 4th Generation hardware)
http://www.el-mod.de/ or available in the US from http://www.rctankwars.com.
The basic system consists of the Thinktank module, the blaster sound card, and the CSI battle circuit.
The Thinktank comes in 2 flavours - ECO and Pro. The main difference is that the ECO is set up for a HL or Tam tank with motors for turret mechanics, while the Pro is aimed at more advanced users with servo's for elevation etc. The Pro can also trigger more sound effects, altho it requires a more sophisticated radio to do this.
Unlike the rest of the systems out there, El-Mod do offer the facility to reprogram the acceleration and top speed of the vehicle via their PC software and USB dongle interface - which is an improvement on the Jack Rabbit driving characteristics of 'certain other systems' IMHO...
The Blaster sound card uses a mini SD card to store the sound files, this allows the end user to switch between the supplied sounds or make their own. Instructions to switch sound sets come on the card, and are easy to follow if you are at least somewhat computer literate
The CSI battle add-on is another simple module to fit, but (like the DBU) in order to face a Tamiya Battle Unit fitted tank on even terms you need to build a baffle for the sensors to mimic the TBU's blind spots. This is not a difficult task, but one that needs a little patience and a lot of styrene sheet ...
That about covers your options for the Ready to Run tank market, so onto the Grand-daddy of them all:
Tamiya
The Tamiya set up consists of 3 parts:
DMD - controls main motors, turret traverse and gun elevation.
MFU - controls sounds, lights, gun flash, recoil, and the battle circuit.
TBU - add on which contains IR tower (aka the 'mushroom' or 'apple') and the IR emitter.
The DMD's are not tank specific, a Sherman or Tiger DMD will talk to a Pershing MFU for instance (Proved by the Detroit club)
The only sensibly priced places to get Tamiya electronic modules here in the UK is from ebay vendors in the far east. jr-rc in Japan is probably your best bet .
In addition to the DMD, MFU and TBU, you also need the comms cable - and if you want to retain some semblance of warranty support - the power splitter cable, recoil mechanism, bullet connectors for your drive motor cables and JST female connectors for your traverse and elevation motors. You can also assemble your own connectors for the TBU, recoil and IR/MG LED's by buying the individual pins for the molex mini plugs - I will make a thread on this later
RcTABU offerings
(I will update soon)
SLU
Comming soon
