Hi mustclime,
You just cannot help your self can you
...ALWAYS, attacking German armour for...Too High, Front Sprocket Drive, Obsolete Armour..unreliable drivetrains..and anything else that is to come.
You are continually insisting that you are right ( Pershing tanks height and reliable rear sprocket drive train for instance )
..........Simply posting diagrams of the armour of the KV 1 and KV85 does not make it any thicker or better, and neither does it make the Tigers and Panthers any Thinner or any worse
.
You knock the Tiger 1 for 80mm of armour at 90 degrees and then have the effrontery to say ....... "the kv85 was a really good tank" with side armour that is
20m less at 60mm at 90 degrees.
If you did your research a little better you would have seen that the
KV1 has a crew of
5 but the
KV 85 only has a crew of
4 ...bigger gun = less space ....Simples !!
Type: Heavy Tank
Crew:
4
http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-V ... /KV-85.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Armaments: x1 85mm Main Gun x3 7.62mm MG
Armour: 30 - 110mm steel
Crew:
4
http://www.tanknutdave.com/component/co ... rticle/749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Specifications (KV-85 version)
Crew:
4
http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?t=28919" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
KV 1 crew 5........
KV85 crew 4
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KV-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"All the german heavies with the exception of the maybe panther g's were over stressing their drivetrains"....yes we ALL know that BUT if they were driven with care, amd skill they performed well !
I have NEVER read however than they were as bad as the KV85s drive train, having to be 'Shifted with a hammer' To repeat the full quote....
It also had serious flaws: it was difficult to steer, the transmission (which was a twenty year old Caterpillar design) was unreliable (and was known to have to be shifted with a hammer), and the ergonomics were poor, with limited visibility and no turret basket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KV-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Against German armour the 85mm gun of the KV85, which was that same as the t34 / 85s gun performed as per this quote against armour at 30 degree slope
The T34-85's 85 mm gun could penetrate the front of a Tiger between 200 and 500 m.
The KV 85 from your own drawing had the lower hull front and the drivers / machine gun armour sloped at 30 degrees with only the glassis at 63 degree....but only 60 mm thick. The sides were vertical at 90 degrees
From a 30 degree angle the Tiger's 88mm gun was capable of penetrating the front glacis plate of an American M4 Sherman between 1,800 and 2,100 m ,the British Churchill IV between 1,100 and 1,700 m , the Soviet T-34 between 800 and 1,400 m , .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_I#Combat_history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.
Interestingly enough, you use the site below to obtain the drawings of the Tiger armour.............BUT ................' Carefully'
omit the gun performance comparison table between the commie 85mm and the German 88mm
Penetration Table 03:
...................................
Tiger I vs. T-34/85 ............................
T-34/85 vs. Tiger I................
Tiger I vs. JS-122
Front: Turret ........................... 1400 m .......................................500 m .......................... 100 m
Mantlet ..................................400 m ......................................0 m ................................100 m
DFP*.................................. ....100 m .....................................300 m ................................100 m
Nose ....................................100 m ........................................200 m ...............................300 m
Side: Turret ............................2200 m ......................................1600 m ............................1000 m
Superstructure ......................... 2100 m.....................................1600 m ..............................1000 m
Hull ......................................3500 m .....................................2900 m .............................1500 m
Rear: Turret ........................... 3200 m ......................................1600 m ............................100 m
Hull ......................................2100 m ......................................1500 m ............................300 m
* DFP = Drivers Front Plate
Source : JENTZ, Thomas L.; Germany's TIGER Tanks - Tiger I and II:
Combat Tactics; ISBN 0-7643-0225-6
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/tiger1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
.
Now you have choosen your tank and explained why............but please stop CONSTANTLY CRITICISING the German tanks .....you are IMHO becoming repetative, predictable, irritating and boring.
.
The topic was
"Given the choice of 10 to 1 odds on any WWII Battlefield which tank would you choose to command??" .....SO....What on Earth have these quotes got to do with the choice and the topic.....''I love how people tiger always, always go on and on about how the tiger could beat up on all the medium tanks of the day".."after 43, the only real medium tank( with a turret) that germany made was the panzer 4( don't bother calling the 45 ton panther a medium tank)" " 5 Litre Mustang crush Honda civic in 1/4 mile"........
My Research indicates that you have chosen badly, VERY BADLY........ but of course you are free to make an alternative choice especially since your first choice is such a very poor tank....My research also indicates that you are WRONG about the number of crew in a KV85, it
IS only 4 ......Unless of course the 5th crewman was hanging onto the outside of the tank with a large hammer to 'Adjust' the '
REAR SPROCKET drive train'
Now
PLEASE mustclime,QUIT THE CONSTANT AND CONTINUAL CRITICISM of the German Tanks..........This is a friendly forum with a tremendous amount of knowledge and skill, packed with members who are more than happy to help out ANYONE from a complete 'Newbie' to a Seasoned Pro...It is NOT a ' Tank Bashing Arena'.....if you want to do that then just choose to post the 'Bashings' on another forum.Once you have 'Got that out of your system' then please feel free to post help or advice, rare information and photographs and to generally help out other members. You could even post a build thread....on something constructive...
Alb..........( Who had nothing better to do at this time, as his 3 year old is sick and asleep , and the Mother-in -law who fell over and badly hurt her ankle and foot is also asleep )
Never Forget......
The Propaganda of the Victors....... becomes the History of the Vanquished
....GOOD LUCK..you are going to need it 
....... also perhaps more accurately described as ....
)
