New debate on the issue of your choice in battle

[Saxondog]

I can contact Jimmy at Heng Long,that is not a problem. If certain venders wanted us talking with Heng Long that would have happened long before now.

PM sent,cheers Blake

[Woz]

There is a real static one on a roundabout in Leyland (where they were built) will have to go and get some photos to post.

I grew up in Leyland and my love for tanks started when Leyland Motors had an open day and they let the kids climb all over (and in) a Centurion (long before Health and Safety had been invented).

[Saxondog]

Very cool,Those were better times and they let us kids be kids. Thanks for sharing the picture, excellent shot is this current? It looks well preserved and maintained.

[frantz70]

To no suprise I would rather have a Panther (late G). Armor is still good, mobility is a tad better with being lighter. As well as the long barrel of it still gives the 75mm enough punch to take out heavies at distance...

Mobility and good tatics are the sole key to success

A Panther G for me too.

[mustclime]

FORD GAF ENGINE 400-450HP MAX. I used this site for my comment,it was not from any knowledge I had. If the Engine were 500HP I cannot dispute that information as my Allied tank knowledge is not very extensive.

I will say this,if I were to chose an allied tank,and this one I do know alot about as it was so interesting and my kind of tank M18 HELLCAT radial engine equipped FAST TANK. Shoot and get the hell gone!

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/de ... rmor_id=64" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/ww2-tanks.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting....I found this...

Engine: Make and Model Ford, GAF
Type V8, L.C.
No. of cylinders 8
Fuel (gasoline) 80 octane
Maximum governed speed 2,600 r.p.m.
Gross hp. 500 at 2,600 r.p.m.
Maximum torque 1,040 lb.-ft. at 2,200 r.p.m
http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/mobil ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there is also this...

http://www.patton-mania.com/M26_Pershin ... shing.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Woz]

Very cool,Those were better times and they let us kids be kids. Thanks for sharing the picture, excellent shot is this current? It looks well preserved and maintained.

I didn't take the pic so I don't know how old it is.

The tank hasn't been there for long and I've only seen it at night so I can't say what condition it's in. I think that if it got vandalised it's be in the local paper and my parents would tell me about it.


Also I've had a rethink, and if by WWII tanks you include prototypes then the Maus would be good vs 10 opponents and no air attacks.

Its armour would be impenetrable against almost every opponent yet its main gun could knock out everything it comes across.

[karl]

I have done no research on this but i would like the early tiger only because i like the look of it
karl

[mustclime]

the main problem with the tiger 1 was they obsolete by mid 43. Their turret and side hull armor was only 80mm at 90 degrees. Here is a layout of the armor thickness...



compare it to a is2 that was 5 tons lighter..



the gun on the is2 was really a bunker buster rather than a tank killer. If I had a choice, I think I would go with the KV85...



The soviet 85mm was really just a copy of the 88mm on the tiger and with the slopped thicker armor, the kv85 was a really good tank.

*steps in to his flame suit*

[mustclime]

here is a inrteresting chart on soviet tank guns....

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/rkkaww2/ ... _tanks.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

btw, here are some more armor layouts....

[Dietrich]

Hi Guys,
Sorry but this has become a long long post.........

The Centurian in WW2 ?? !!.......I have never heard of that ......as far as I knew it was too late to fight....

Wikipedia says this..
The Centurion, introduced in 1945, was the primary British main battle tank of the post-World War II period. It was a successful tank design, with upgrades, for many decades. The chassis was also adapted for several other roles.
Development of the tank began in 1943 and manufacture of the Centurion began in January 1945, six prototypes arriving in Belgium less than a month after the war in Europe ended in May 1945.[1]
It first entered combat with British forces in the Korean War in 1950, in support of the UN forces.

The 1. after the quote about the centurian arriving AFTER the end of the European war is from a book.....by.... Dunstan & Sarson, Centurion, p. 8
Then other sites that I found say the same thing......it missed WW2...In Europe and was not sent to the East so it did not fight in WW2
The Centurion first saw action during the Korean War with the British Army.
http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/we ... urion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the Centurion just failed to see action in WW2. It saw action first time in Korea
http://centuriontank.tripod.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 1943, after a succession of unfortunate tank designs the British War Office commissioned a new specification calling for a tank with durability, reliability, a weight of 40 tons and the ability to withstand a direct hit from the German 88mm gun. Six prototypes were developed before the end of World War 2, but arrived to late to take part in the war on German soil.
http://www.lancers.org.au/site/Centurion_Tank.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please corect me if I am wrong but I cannot find a site that says that it made it in time..........

Centurian statistics.....are interesting.....compared to the King Tiger.......

Initially armed with the 17 pounder ( then later the 20 pounder which I guess is the famous 105mm gun )
crew: 4 Length: (hull) 7.8 m (gun forward) 9.85 m, Width: (including skirts) 3.39 m. Height: 3 m . Weight: 51.8 Tonnes: Max Armour thickness 152 mm (Glacis Plate).
Power-plant: Main engine - Rolls Royce Meteor Mk IVB 12 cylinder liquid cooled, petrol engine, developing 650 bhp at 2,550 rpm. Power/weight ratio 13 bhp/ton
Performance: Speed 34.6 kph. Range 190 Km.
Crew 5 Length (Hull)6.4 metres 10.286 metres with gun forward , Width 3.755 metres, Height 3.09 metres Weight 68.5 tonnes Max Armour 180 mm 150mm Glasis
Power plant V-12 Maybach HL 230 P30 gasoline 700 PS (690 hp, 515 kW) Power to weight ratio 8.97 hp/ton)
Performance :- Speed Maximum, road: 41.5 km/h Range Road: 170 km cross country 120 km

88mm Gun against German armour ( However, the German test plates were of a much better quality than what could normally be expected, and thus the actual results would usually be better than those of the tests. In addition, it should be considered that the German tests were conducted at a 30° angle )
http://www.panzerworld.net/armourpenetration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

8,8 cm Kw.K.43 L/71
.............................................100m...... 500m....... 1000m..... 1500m...... 2000m
Pzgr.39-1 ... 10.2 kg ... 1,000 m/s ... 202 mm... 185 mm.... 165 mm... 148 mm... 132 mm
Pzgr.40/43... 7.3 kg... 1,130 m/s .... 237 mm ... 217 mm ... 193 mm... 170 mm... 152 mm

So with the Pzgr.40/43 round against the 150mm Glasis plate of the Centurian it is probably dead from say 1500m...... or 2000m if it got to a point to reduce the centurions glasis angle to 30 degrees

The 17-pounder used two types of anti-tank ammunition. APCBC (Armour Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped) and against armour also at 30 degrees acheived these results

........................ 457m... 914m... 1371m... 1828m
APCBC... .............140mm... 131mm... 120mm... 111mm
APDS.................. 208mm... 192mm... 176mm... 161mm...
BUT...However, APDS was much less accurate than APCBC ammunition, and did not do nearly as much damage to an enemy tank if it did penetrate. APCBC ammunition was standard; APDS shot was used for about 6% of the average loadout of a 17-pdr equipped British tank.

So with the 17 pounder APDS round 6% of the ammo and a similar reduction in the King Tigers Glasis to 30 degrees it could kill a King Tiger at 1828m...IF it could hit it bearing in mind the inaccuracy mentioned of the round.

SO the result is the King Tiger is Under Powered but faster once it gets up and running....other than that the 2 are well matched.......The Germans just produced it 2 years earlier with the first King Tiger being produced in 1943 ( Just )
..................The only odd point on the 17 pounder armour penetration capabilities......is that there are plenty of photographs showing HITS to the King Tigers Glasis plate and obviously some were used as target practice on the Western front, with the photographs being noted accordingly....BUT...there is No account mentioning a frontal penetration. If fact quite the reverse is true with it being categorically stated that the Frontal Armour was NEVER penetrated.

The Centurian DID go on to become a first class fighting tank that was used by the British and successfully sold to a wide variety of countries....as the King Tiger would have undoubtedly been had the 'Outcome' gone the opposite way