Tamiya or Heng Long Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?

[zooma]

As I run my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks I do wonder if the Heng Long version might have been a better bet as far as regular use is concerned?

I accept that the Tamiya version may well have finer scale details and as a static or as an r/c tank that will not get too much running, it may well be considered the better scale model, but the Heng Long Leopard looks just as good when it is being driven outside and the less fine (less delicate) details are less likely to get damaged or lost.

With this in mind, the comparative cost also comes into question too.

If the model is to be run regularly and is not to be spared the occasional run in the mud, or grass etc my feeling is that the less expensive (and simpler) Heng Long could be more durable - and at a much lower price!

Running my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 is getting to be an expensive experience and it is not without its problems. The well know sagging of the turret and the easily broken suspension arms are just two things that are beginner to "jar" a little. The turret can no doubt be re-worked and strengthened. Removing the batteries whenever the tank is not actually being driven and placing a spacer between the rear of the turret and the engine deck to support the turret when the tank is not being run should not be needed on a expensive model like this IMHO. It should be better engineered to take the "day to day" running without needing this amount of preventative attention.

The suspension arms can be up-graded to metal arms (at a cost) but if they are not replaced the original kit suspension arms will fracture and split......and of course the plain bushes really need to be upgraded to ball raced bearings too!

Comparing only the above two problems with the Heng Long copy is enough to cause some doubts in my mind. The Heng Long Leopard 2A6 presumably does not suffer from the same turret sag as the battery is located in the hull and not in the turret. This may be slightly less convenient when changing the battery, but it is a far better place to locate this heavy weight as far as wear and tear on the turret is concerned.

I am not aware of any regular complaints about the suspension arms failing on the Heng Long Leopard 2A6. Often the model is delivered with metal suspension arms at a nominal price increase in any case, but they are freely available for upgrade if required ...and for very little (comparative) cash.

Although I accept that any r/c model tank that is going to actually be driven and enjoyed must be carefully cleaned and maintained, I am thinking that the Tamiya Leopard may need more time and cash to keep it running well than the alternative brand would ! Cleaning and maintaining an r/c model tank is not an issue for me, and the maintenance of the model and the replacement of any worn or broken parts is part of the hobby - but my thoughts are that I could get a lot more running time for the cash that needs to be spent if I was running a Heng Long and not a Tamiya Leopard 2A6........but I would like anyone with experience of the two types to correct me if I am wrong.

Watching the videos of Mr tank a lots Heng Long Leopard running freely outdoors suggests that his choice of Leopard 2A6 is a lot better than mine as he is able to run it without the same level of fear as I have and at a lot less cost! Maybe he has broken a lot of parts or worn things out and had to replace a lot of things (?) but I feel sure that if this was the case he would have mentioned it as his videos are very "hands-on"and covers all aspects of owning the tanks from unboxing to detailing and making improvements.

Personally, I admit that I would like to see a video by Mr tank a lot that covers any repairs or service replacements that he has had to make on his much used basic Heng Long Leopard, but I rather suspect that even his plastic gearbox equipped basic model has proven to be a lot more durable than my Tamiya Leopards have done to date.

I would like to hear from anyone that has run any of the longer type more modern tanks from Heng Long such as the Leopard, Abrams, Challenger, T90, etc to find out what sort of wear and tear they have experienced and compare what sort of wear and breakages they have had to cope with?

[Meter rat]

I’ll give you my two pennies worth. Others may have different views and experiences. I would go with the HL Leopard. Tamiya’s will take take some abuse, especially if they have metal, torsion bars, but parts are getting expensive and hard to find for some of the models, so nowadays I think they should be kept for “display running “ . For everyday use the HL are relative inexpensive, have cheapish parts, and can be upgraded easily when parts break. My Challenge has only broken the drive sprockets, which were aftermarket. It has not been without its track retaining problems, which over time I have resolved. I have no experience of running an all plastic tank, like Mr TAL. The best thing you can do is install internal bracing, especially if you intend to run metal tracks. They do need regular maintenance but no real wear or breakages, and according to Mr Bix, I run mine hard. The Abrams exhibits the same track retention issues as the Challenger, again it runs metal tracks.

[tomhugill]

As I run my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks I do wonder if the Heng Long version might have been a better bet as far as regular use is concerned?

I accept that the Tamiya version may well have finer scale details and as a static or as an r/c tank that will not get too much running, it may well be considered the better scale model, but the Heng Long Leopard looks just as good when it is being driven outside and the finer (more delicate) details are less likely to get damaged or lost.

With this in mind, the comparative cost also comes into question too.

If the model is to be run regularly and is not to be spared the occasional run in the mud, or grass etc my feeling is that the less expensive (and simpler) Heng Long could be more durable - and at a much lower price!

Running my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 is getting to be an expensive experience and it is not without its problems. The well know sagging of the turret and the easily broken suspension arms are just two things that are beginner to "jar" a little. The turret can no doubt be re-worked and strengthened. Removing the batteries whenever the tank is not actually being driven and placing a spacer between the rear of the turret and the engine deck to support the turret when the tank is not being run should not be needed on a expensive model like this IMHO. It should be better engineered to take the "day to day" running without needing this amount of preventative attention.

The suspension arms can be up-graded to metal arms (at a cost) but if they are not replaced the original kit suspension arms will fracture and split......and of course the plain bushes really need to be upgraded to ball raced bearings too!

Comparing only the above two problems with the Heng Long copy is enough to cause some doubts in my mind. The Heng Long Leopard 2A6 presumably does not suffer from the same turret sag as the battery is located in the hull and not in the turret. This may be slightly less convenient when changing the battery, but it is a far better place to locate this heavy weight as far as wear and tear on the turret is concerned.

I am not aware of any regular complaints about the suspension arms failing on the Heng Long Leopard 2A6. Often the model is delivered with metal suspension arms at a nominal price increase in any case, but they are freely available for upgrade if required ...and for very little (comparative) cash.

Although I accept that any r/c model tank that is going to actually be driven and enjoyed must be carefully cleaned and maintained, I am thinking that the Tamiya Leopard may need more time and cash to keep it running well than the alternative brand would ! Cleaning and maintaining an r/c model tank is not an issue for me, and the maintenance of the model and the replacement of any worn or broken parts is part of the hobby - but my thoughts are that I could get a lot more running time for the cash that needs to be spent if I was running a Heng Long and not a Tamiya Leopard 2A6........but I would like anyone with experience of the two types to correct me if I am wrong.

Watching the videos of Mr tank a lots Heng Long Leopard running freely outdoors suggests that his choice of Leopard 2A6 is a lot better than mine as he is able to run it without the same level of fear as I have and at a lot less cost! Maybe he has broken a lot of parts or worn things out and had to replace a lot of things (?) but I feel sure that if this was the case he would have mentioned it as his videos are very "hands-on"and covers all aspects of owning the tanks from unboxing to detailing and making improvements.

Personally, I admit that I would like to see a video by Mr tank a lot that covers any repairs or service replacements that he has had to make on his much used basic Heng Long Leopard, but I rather suspect that even his plastic gearbox equipped basic model has proven to be a lot more durable than my Tamiya Leopards have done to date.

I would like to hear from anyone that has run any of the longer type more modern tanks from Heng Long such as the Leopard, Abrams, Challenger, T90, etc to find out what sort of wear and tear they have experienced and compare what sort of wear and breakages they have had to cope with?

For my money tamiya is a grey runner and HL and taigen. can both be made great runners. Get the metal arms and upgraded idler adjuster for the tamiya and it'll run and run. Heck the plastic arms will be fine for a good while, I think a lot of the cracking arm issues tends to be on older tanks where the plastic has gotten brittle over the year.

I prefer the double differential type gearbox the modern tamiya tanks come with, I usually retrofit my HL type tanks with the dklm style ones where I can (although there's nothing wrong with the taigen and HL steel gears).

As they say, your mileage may vary but I wouldn't be consigning tamiya tanks to shelf queens yet.

[zooma]

I have built and run a lot of Tamiya tanks since they first came out including the first Sherman, Leopard and Gepard Flak Panzer. They were comparatively simple models but they worked - the Sherman in particular was virtually indestructible!

One of my old Sherman tanks (pre-full option type) ran for year after year outdoors and was used by my friend's children on their farm in all kinds of weather (and in all sorts of polluted "mud"!) for years before I got it back (after they had grown up!). It was totally abused and still worked, and worked well. I thought we would end up having to shoot it as it refused to die, but it is still running (!) as a friend wanted something to play with when he went to his holiday cottage in Scotland as a change from his 4WD rock crawlers....so it is still alive and being abused!

The only problem I had with it was with the original metal tracks. They had been used so much they had picked up some damage and they would scag any carpet or mark-up any hard indoor floor surface so it was relegated for outdoor use only!

When the "full option" kits came out I built them too and enjoyed running them. Some of my early Tiger 1 tanks were only sold when somebody fancied one of my air brush camoflage schemes, but they were quickly replaced with another full option Tiger 1 and I don't remember having any problems worth mentioning with any of them. I also had most of the other models too - but none of them gave me any cause for concern.

My Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks by comparison have not given me the same level of confidence. I need to find a solution that will be a permanent fix for the sagging turret and the metal arms that have arrived from AFV are excellent, but when check fitted there is still a fair bit of wobble from the plastic axles that they fit onto - despite each axle now being supported by three ball bearings !

AFV do make a set of brass axles so they may also be needed if I am ever going to have a strong reliable drive train.......but look at the cost !

For the price of a set of ball bearings, AFV metal suspension arms and AFV brass axles (we have not mentioned adjustable idlers yet) I could buy a new Heng Long Leopard 2A6 that would be much cheaper to run and feed with any spare parts that it may need in the future.....and from what I can see it will run at least as well.

I am aware of some problems with keeping the track on the longer chassis Heng Long models and the angle alloy frame fix etc but again by comparison they seem like an inexpensive fix, whereas at the stage I am not 100% certain that my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 will be totally "fixed" even after spending all the cash on the metal upgrade parts........and I still have the sagging turret to fix!

[zooma]

For my money tamiya is a grey runner and HL and taigen. can both be made great runners. Get the metal arms and upgraded idler adjuster for the tamiya and it'll run and run. Heck the plastic arms will be fine for a good while, I think a lot of the cracking arm issues tends to be on older tanks where the plastic has gotten brittle over the year.

I prefer the double differential type gearbox the modern tamiya tanks come with, I usually retrofit my HL type tanks with the dklm style ones where I can (although there's nothing wrong with the taigen and HL steel gears).

As they say, your mileage may vary but I wouldn't be consigning tamiya tanks to shelf queens yet.

I have no intention of consigning my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks to being shelf queens just yet - and as you know - I am actually building another one at the moment, so I do really like the model, but from my experience it is the "weakest" model in the Tamiya 1/16 scale r/c kit range when it comes to actually being used and driven.

Looking at it is brilliant, the sound is good, and the gearbox works well enough too but the sagging turret and easily broken suspension arms are not its best features and are two areas that I think Tamiya should and could have done much better on an expensive model like this.

Maybe the plastic on this model is weaker than the plastic used on the previous models (not sure why it would be) , but my 2A6 tanks are not old enough yet to suffer from brittle plastic.......are they? I have much older Tiger 1 tanks and I have not noticed anything snapping off of them yet....or my (previously mentioned) vintage Sherman.........

Perhaps the difference is purely in the length of the more modern tanks and the stress that the longer track runs puts on the suspension arms - I really don't know, but the reason for this "slightly provocative" question comparing the Tamiya and the Heng Long Leopards is in the hope that somebody who has had long term experience with running a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 will speak up and let me know what was done to make it more reliable.

There are no comments yet from happy high mileage Tamiya Leopard 2A6 owners.................

[zooma]

I’ll give you my two pennies worth. Others may have different views and experiences. I would go with the HL Leopard. Tamiya’s will take take some abuse, especially if they have metal, torsion bars, but parts are getting expensive and hard to find for some of the models, so nowadays I think they should be kept for “display running “ . For everyday use the HL are relative inexpensive, have cheapish parts, and can be upgraded easily when parts break. My Challenge has only broken the drive sprockets, which were aftermarket. It has not been without its track retaining problems, which over time I have resolved. I have no experience of running an all plastic tank, like Mr TAL. The best thing you can do is install internal bracing, especially if you intend to run metal tracks. They do need regular maintenance but no real wear or breakages, and according to Mr Bix, I run mine hard. The Abrams exhibits the same track retention issues as the Challenger, again it runs metal tracks.

Hi Meter Rat,

Indeed it was watching the excellent videos from Mr TAL that got me thinking............ thinking enough to pose the question:-

"I do wonder if the Heng Long version might have been a better bet as far as regular use is concerned".

At the moment, nobody has come forwards that has had extensive and regular running with a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tank, but if they do I would like to know what parts they needed to change to avoid the breakages of the weak suspension arms that I have experienced with mine......and I would also like to know if they have found a positive long lasting fix to stop the turret drooping when in regular extended use.

As far as the turret drop is concerned, there has been some good advice about not leaving the battery in the turret when it is not being used and also to wedge a block of something under the turret (again when it is not being run) to help support it, but my thoughts are that more damage (that causes the droop) will be done when the tank is regularly bumping along cross country with the battery in the turret.

I am taking the advice offered and I do not store the battery in the turret (never have done), but my thoughts are that my turret droop has mainly been caused when I am driving the tank and not when it is resting without the battery in the turret.

......having said that, I am more than happy to keep a wedge under the turret when it is not running - just in case the plastic and/or the shape that Tamiya have moulded the turret and its associated parts in are not good enough even to support their own weight.

Given that the above two main failings are well known, I am a little surprised that Tamiya have not improved this on their latest remake that is due to be released any time soon....or perhaps they have?

If Tamiya have improved their product then I think they should offer the upgraded replacement parts to their loyal customers who have paid good money (too much) for a product that has these faults - or at least offer an upgrade kit with stronger suspension arms and turret parts that do not droop - possibly at a modest exchange price?

I am not holding my breath, but several other manufacturers recall their products when they have well known faults, and Tamiya is a premium household name to most of us, so it would be nice if they responded positively to correct this problem on one of their expensive flagship models.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Bob.

[Son of a gun-ner]

I purchased a Heng Long Leopard 2A6 about eight years ago with metal tracks, sprockets and gearboxes (the nasty Zink alloy type).
It's either the second or third 2.4gig setup, for either £230 or £240, sorry, purchased quite a few tanks at the time, therefore my memory is a tad sketchy.
It had only ran once or twice in the garden, through grass without a problem back then. My grandson claimed it last year, and it has had a few runs without issue at his local club and at Blackpool last October, I'm very pleased with the purchase, it's a great little runner.
I'm sure it'll need something replacing one day, but at the moment, the old saying applies, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[zooma]

I took my oldest Tamiya Leopard 2A6 to the club for the first time last night and it did run really well on the wooden hall floors, and was considerably faster than a friend's Heng Long Challenger 11. His Challenger 11 will no doubt share the same performance as a Heng Long Leopard 2A6 ( ?) so now he wants to find a way to increase his speed to make it more "scale like" for a modern tank and similar to the speed of my Leopard as we think that looks "about right".

My 2A6 did tend to produce a "clacking" or "snagging" sound from time to time (not when running in a straight line), and on a tight 360 turn I could see the track rolling up in front of the drive sprocket, so I am thinking that the track tension is too loose and needs adjusting?

This particular tank was the one that I swopped for a Wedico r/c truck many years ago (10 years or so ago?) - the one that the owner had "professionally built" for him. When it was finished he drove it briefly through some mud and small stones and decided that r/c tanks were not for him! This tank has been stored in my workshop (shed) ever since and only got its first clean just over a week ago when I took it out of the shed and noticed the broken suspension arms and replaced them before having my first drive with it.

Maybe the loose track tension and the small stones and mud combined to cause the damage (?)...or maybe the suspension arms have aged - or maybe they are just not very strong?

I will take the tracks off of the tank today and check to see if there are any "tight" links before refitting it and adjusting the tension to tighten it slightly - just enough to stop it "rolling-up" in front of the drive sprocket when its rotates in the reverse direction.

Does anyone know if this particular type of Tamiya Leopard 2A6 track is liable to stretch?..........and if it is possible to remove a link to shorten it?

[Tiger6]

All tracks stretch, that is what the tensioner is for. If you remove a link from one side, you should also remove one from the other, otherwise the tank will not go in a straight line - better to see what the tensioner has to offer in terms of adjustment first.

Driving thru small stones is just asking for trouble. At best you might break a track link, at worst I have seen whole transmissions ripped out of tank chassis. Driving thru thick mud is also not conducive to long life. Remember that these things are all just toys at the end of the day, some are simply more expensive than others. None of them are intended to be abused to any great degree, and anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or hasn't quite abused the tank long enough to reach a point of failure yet...

Wonderland models will be able to order replacement tracks for you, if Tamiya has stock anywhere, just be prepared for 'main car dealership' levels of spare parts pricing, and a wait of a few months.

[zooma]

All tracks stretch, that is what the tensioner is for. If you remove a link from one side, you should also remove one from the other, otherwise the tank will not go in a straight line - better to see what the tensioner has to offer in terms of adjustment first.

Driving thru small stones is just asking for trouble. At best you might break a track link, at worst I have seen whole transmissions ripped out of tank chassis. Driving thru thick mud is also not conducive to long life. Remember that these things are all just toys at the end of the day, some are simply more expensive than others. None of them are intended to be abused to any great degree, and anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or hasn't quite abused the tank long enough to reach a point of failure yet...

Wonderland models will be able to order replacement tracks for you, if Tamiya has stock anywhere, just be prepared for 'main car dealership' levels of spare parts pricing, and a wait of a few months.

I was going to use the tension adjuster first as it is easier and quicker, but I was just wondering if anyone had removed a link pin on the TAMIYA Leopard 2A6 tracks to know how it went - and if they went back and stayed together again OK afterwards.

Spare tracks are one of the few parts that are currently available in the UK for the Tamiya Leopard 2A6, but at around a £100 for a set of plastic tracks my interest in how well they can be taken apart and successfully run after being put back together again is understandable. I bought a set of plastics tracks for my HAYA Chieftain for £11.99 delivered, so the price comparisons between the two brands can be a little "stark" at times!

You are right - our r/c tanks may well just be expensive "toys" at the end of the day, but they are good fun to drive and many of them do get some "heavy duty" use!

Servicing them to keep them in top mechanical condition is also something that I enjoy doing, but comparing the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 with the Heng Long I would suggest that it is easier and less expensive to keep the latter in tip top condition.

Spare parts for Tamiya Leopard 2A6 are not as easy to find in the UK as they are in Germany (for example) and they are a lot more expensive too.

The Tamiya drive train is also more complex than the Heng Long, so now that I am beginning to put some real milage on my r/c tanks it will become more clear which is the best of the two types for regular use as far as cost and maintenance is concerned. (the title of this thread).