Back to the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that I am currently running (and having lots of problems with) I gave it its second run at the club last week, and despite it running on a nice smooth floor in the church hall, the tank was bumping along rather than running smoothly.
I also noticed that the track was bunching-up when turning between the drive sprocket and the first road wheel. This was on the side where the sprocket was running in reverse where it was pushing a "folded" length of track up against the closest road wheel........and yet another suspension arm had been broken !
Yesterday I took the top deck off of the hull (again) and found that it was not possible to shorten the track by one link, and trying to turn the track adjuster by one click to tighten the track was again not possible - suggesting that the track length must be OK as it is so I need to look elsewhere to find the problem.
Both tracks were checked for any tight links, but every link was free. I fitted the brand new set of tracks from the part built kit that I am working on, and had exactly the same results, so having established that the original tracks are OK and are not the cause of the problem, I removed the new ones and will refit the original ones again.
Later today I will remove the top deck again so that I can work on the hull and try to find out what exactly is going wrong. Despite the time that I have owned it (in storage) this tank has had very few running minutes from new - so it is getting to be slightly more than just annoying!
At the moment the comparison between running a Tamiya Modern tank and a Heng Long Modern tank is looking like a clean sweep in favour of the Heng Long - but I am determined to find and correct the cause of this rough running and broken suspension arms to give the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 a fair chance to show what it can do!
Tamiya or Heng Long Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?
Tamiya Leopard 2A6 Track problems continue to annoy..
Never too old to learn........
Re: Tamiya or Heng Long Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?
I'm an infrequent visitor of this forum so I've missed this thread for a bit but you can count me as one of the longtime Leopard operators with 3 of the Tamiya variety, driving in mid/high traction conditions of short lawn grass, the oldest having been operated for more than the past ten years.
Two of them have the AFV hull stiffener plates as well as the reinforced suspension mounts. I bought them used, so they came like that. With the rest of my friends with Leopards that don't have the mounts or the braces, they don't work any poorer without the hull stiffening kit.
My tanks are heavier (and slower though).
But for all of us, the metal suspension arms are pretty much an inevitable outcome as the plastic arms do crack and fail.
And although the Leopard lent its gearbox to the Type 10 and Abrams, its DMD programming is kinder to the differential gear, so it doesn't chew it up like the newer tanks do.
I don't own a Heng Long so I am not disputing your judgement and I would always look to HL if I needed cheap body spares like rear view mirrors and smoke grenade launchers, but for fine detail like turret baskets and fibre optic lighting - Tamiya is better.
Perhaps the key difference is that I have been running AFV's track tensioner system, which is more finely splined than Tamiya's stock track tensioner. I've always and will continue to insist that track tension is key to a tank's ability to keep its tracks in any type of terrain.
Two of them have the AFV hull stiffener plates as well as the reinforced suspension mounts. I bought them used, so they came like that. With the rest of my friends with Leopards that don't have the mounts or the braces, they don't work any poorer without the hull stiffening kit.
My tanks are heavier (and slower though).
But for all of us, the metal suspension arms are pretty much an inevitable outcome as the plastic arms do crack and fail.
And although the Leopard lent its gearbox to the Type 10 and Abrams, its DMD programming is kinder to the differential gear, so it doesn't chew it up like the newer tanks do.
I don't own a Heng Long so I am not disputing your judgement and I would always look to HL if I needed cheap body spares like rear view mirrors and smoke grenade launchers, but for fine detail like turret baskets and fibre optic lighting - Tamiya is better.
Perhaps the key difference is that I have been running AFV's track tensioner system, which is more finely splined than Tamiya's stock track tensioner. I've always and will continue to insist that track tension is key to a tank's ability to keep its tracks in any type of terrain.
Tamiya Leopard 2A6 now running properly - at a cost!
Hi R32,
You are the first long term Tamiya Leopard 2A6 owner/operator to join in this thread and it is good to hear from you - and very reassuring to know that my own experience and findings are not just unique to myself . I was beginning to think that I must be doing something terribly wrong!
Earlier this evening I broke yet another plastic suspension arm - obviously I must have been abusing it by driving the model carefully for almost 2 minutes on my smooth laminate kitchen floor!!
In desperation I fitted a full set of AFV metal suspension arms tonight. I had already bought them , but I wanted to find the cause of the rough running and easily broken suspension arms first - but I failed!
With the AFV metal suspension arms fitted the tank now drives nice and smoothly (!!!), so I can only imagine that the original kit supplied plastic arms were bending and flexing (as well as splitting around the axle hub) and that they were the cause of the rough running and the "clacking" noises that could be heard whenever I attempted a serious manoeuvre (such as a slow turn) have also disappeared.
It is looking like the Tamiya plastic suspension arms are not fit for purpose so this is gong to be an expensive month for me as I have two Tamiya Leopard 2A6 to feed and a third being built from an unboxed new kit that I bought recently. They all need upgrading - just to be able to run properly and without regular suspension arm breakages!
I have already ordered one pair of the brass AFV track tensioners as I still think the tracks need slightly more tension - but not as much tension as the next available step adjustment that the plastic kit adjusters can offer as that would make the tracks really tight - too tight.
Next month will see me ordering another two sets of AFV metal arms and two more AFV brass track tension adjusters........just as soon as I get paid for the kidney that I will need to sell to supplement my pension!
This "big spend" will equip all three of my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks so that they can run properly.
I have not seen the AFV chassis stiffening plates on their site, but I hope to be able to run without them to save weight and cash (I will only have one kidney left).
As this thread is comparing the Tamiya and Heng Long tanks against each other for "Regular Running" it may be worth considering that for the cost of the three new sprues that were needed to replace the fractured plastic suspension arms that have failed in one week, along with the cost of the AFV metal suspension arms and the AFV brass adjusters and their POSTAGE CHARGES (just to make ONE Tamiya tank run properly) I could have bought a brand new Heng Long Leopard 2A6 with metal arms!........and that is without the cost of the upgraded ball bearing set that was also needed due to rapid excess wear on the kit supplied plain bearings!
Food for thought.....................
Bob.
You are the first long term Tamiya Leopard 2A6 owner/operator to join in this thread and it is good to hear from you - and very reassuring to know that my own experience and findings are not just unique to myself . I was beginning to think that I must be doing something terribly wrong!
Earlier this evening I broke yet another plastic suspension arm - obviously I must have been abusing it by driving the model carefully for almost 2 minutes on my smooth laminate kitchen floor!!
In desperation I fitted a full set of AFV metal suspension arms tonight. I had already bought them , but I wanted to find the cause of the rough running and easily broken suspension arms first - but I failed!
With the AFV metal suspension arms fitted the tank now drives nice and smoothly (!!!), so I can only imagine that the original kit supplied plastic arms were bending and flexing (as well as splitting around the axle hub) and that they were the cause of the rough running and the "clacking" noises that could be heard whenever I attempted a serious manoeuvre (such as a slow turn) have also disappeared.
It is looking like the Tamiya plastic suspension arms are not fit for purpose so this is gong to be an expensive month for me as I have two Tamiya Leopard 2A6 to feed and a third being built from an unboxed new kit that I bought recently. They all need upgrading - just to be able to run properly and without regular suspension arm breakages!
I have already ordered one pair of the brass AFV track tensioners as I still think the tracks need slightly more tension - but not as much tension as the next available step adjustment that the plastic kit adjusters can offer as that would make the tracks really tight - too tight.
Next month will see me ordering another two sets of AFV metal arms and two more AFV brass track tension adjusters........just as soon as I get paid for the kidney that I will need to sell to supplement my pension!
This "big spend" will equip all three of my Tamiya Leopard 2A6 tanks so that they can run properly.
I have not seen the AFV chassis stiffening plates on their site, but I hope to be able to run without them to save weight and cash (I will only have one kidney left).
As this thread is comparing the Tamiya and Heng Long tanks against each other for "Regular Running" it may be worth considering that for the cost of the three new sprues that were needed to replace the fractured plastic suspension arms that have failed in one week, along with the cost of the AFV metal suspension arms and the AFV brass adjusters and their POSTAGE CHARGES (just to make ONE Tamiya tank run properly) I could have bought a brand new Heng Long Leopard 2A6 with metal arms!........and that is without the cost of the upgraded ball bearing set that was also needed due to rapid excess wear on the kit supplied plain bearings!
Food for thought.....................
Bob.
Never too old to learn........
Re: Tamiya or Heng Long Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?
Go ahead and treat yourself to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166621820617
Regarding your comment about a gentle turn on smooth laminate floor would give little stress to a fully-plastic or metal tracked tank, but is particularly hard for rubber padded tracks that provide more resistance than on dirt or grass.
The issue with the kit-supplied arms is simply age, and with the Leopard being in production for so long, I can only speculate there is plastic degradation whether it has been built or not, and there's no real way of telling if you have bought a freshly-manufactured kit or spare parts sprue.
Here's a photo of one of my Leopard's AFV chassis brace. It makes the speaker box a tight fit between the bulkheads. Take note that the AFV plates will require you to use a special extended spline for the track tensioner. The previous owner of my tank didn't and just hacked away the end tips to fit the more-common Impact track tensioner spline. You can also see AFV's updated torsion bar hats and bases here, along with their adjustable suspension arm axles.
Another mod that I liked is King Kong RC's metal return idler wheel, which features rubber tires.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166621820617
Regarding your comment about a gentle turn on smooth laminate floor would give little stress to a fully-plastic or metal tracked tank, but is particularly hard for rubber padded tracks that provide more resistance than on dirt or grass.
The issue with the kit-supplied arms is simply age, and with the Leopard being in production for so long, I can only speculate there is plastic degradation whether it has been built or not, and there's no real way of telling if you have bought a freshly-manufactured kit or spare parts sprue.
Here's a photo of one of my Leopard's AFV chassis brace. It makes the speaker box a tight fit between the bulkheads. Take note that the AFV plates will require you to use a special extended spline for the track tensioner. The previous owner of my tank didn't and just hacked away the end tips to fit the more-common Impact track tensioner spline. You can also see AFV's updated torsion bar hats and bases here, along with their adjustable suspension arm axles.
Another mod that I liked is King Kong RC's metal return idler wheel, which features rubber tires.
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Re: Tamiya or Heng Long Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?
That is one chunky looking chassis r32.
.......and it has ALL of the AFV suspension option upgrade parts too!
.......and it has ALL of the AFV suspension option upgrade parts too!
Never too old to learn........
Tamiya Leopard 2A6 for Regular Use?
My (previously) troublesome Tamiya Leopard 2A6 is continuing to run smoothly and I have now changed the tx to operate with the throttle and steering on the right hand stick so I don’t get confused when switching between my Heng Long tanks and my Tamiya tanks.
It’s a shame that I needed to fit the AFV metal suspension arms and rcbearings ball races to achieve this state of well-being, but it has worked and the model is now much nicer to drive.
It’s a shame that I needed to fit the AFV metal suspension arms and rcbearings ball races to achieve this state of well-being, but it has worked and the model is now much nicer to drive.
Never too old to learn........
What is the least needed to make a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 work?
Although I bought a pair of AFV track tension adjusters when I bought their excellent metal suspension arms I have not fitted them yet as I wanted to find out what would be the MINIMUM additional parts that are needed to make a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 work reliably.
So far the ball bearings and the metal arms have done the job, and it is looking like the tracks only appeared to be loose as the plastic suspension arms failed.
The next Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that I will prepare to run will be the one that was bought from my friend just before he passed away. He built all of the Tamiya r/c tank kits, but never run any of them. He enjoyed building and painting them but was not too interested in actually running them.
This second Leopard will have a set of “rcbearings” rubber shielded ball bearings fitted, and in an attempt to find out how little has to be spent to make a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 work reliably, I have decided to order a set of the less expensive metal suspension arms from eBay made by KingKong as they cost about half as much as the AFV brass ones (when the expensive postage to the UK is taken into account) so although still not exactly “cheap” they will save a fair bit of cash - if they work!
So far the ball bearings and the metal arms have done the job, and it is looking like the tracks only appeared to be loose as the plastic suspension arms failed.
The next Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that I will prepare to run will be the one that was bought from my friend just before he passed away. He built all of the Tamiya r/c tank kits, but never run any of them. He enjoyed building and painting them but was not too interested in actually running them.
This second Leopard will have a set of “rcbearings” rubber shielded ball bearings fitted, and in an attempt to find out how little has to be spent to make a Tamiya Leopard 2A6 work reliably, I have decided to order a set of the less expensive metal suspension arms from eBay made by KingKong as they cost about half as much as the AFV brass ones (when the expensive postage to the UK is taken into account) so although still not exactly “cheap” they will save a fair bit of cash - if they work!
Last edited by zooma on Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Never too old to learn........
AFV, KingKong or TAMIYA Metal Suspension Arms?
Post by r32 » Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:27 am
Go ahead and treat yourself to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166621820617
I wanted to buy a set of metal suspension arms for the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that I am building from a new unboxed kit as I now know (from experience and advice received) that this model will not run well or reliably without them.
The AFV brass suspension arms are working very well on my first Tamiya 2A6, but they are very expensive to buy from Germany due to their fairly high cost - made much worse by their very expensive delivery charge to the UK.
My second Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that my friend completed just before he passed away will be fitted with a set of King Kong suspension arms when they arrive as they are a lot less expensive and hopefully they will fit and work as well as the AFV metal arms. I have ordered these from eBay and they should be delivered sometime next week.
I did follow the link provided above by r32 for an alternative set of metal arms but they were "unavailable" when I first tried to buy them, but yesterday the link worked and I was able to buy a set to fit the new kit that I am building. This will be very interesting because these metal suspension arms are made by TAMIYA (!) and with the metal front idler wheel adjuster (that comes with them) they also work out less expensive that another set of arms from AFV.
Time will tell if any of my above alternative choices prove to be a wise investment, but when everything arrives I will be able to report back with a direct comparison between metal suspension arms to fit the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 .
AFV, KingKong and TAMIYA are the three different types of metal suspension arms that I will be fitting and testing - and as far as I know these are the ONLY three types of metal suspension arms that are available to fit the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 .....?
Go ahead and treat yourself to this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/166621820617
I wanted to buy a set of metal suspension arms for the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that I am building from a new unboxed kit as I now know (from experience and advice received) that this model will not run well or reliably without them.
The AFV brass suspension arms are working very well on my first Tamiya 2A6, but they are very expensive to buy from Germany due to their fairly high cost - made much worse by their very expensive delivery charge to the UK.
My second Tamiya Leopard 2A6 that my friend completed just before he passed away will be fitted with a set of King Kong suspension arms when they arrive as they are a lot less expensive and hopefully they will fit and work as well as the AFV metal arms. I have ordered these from eBay and they should be delivered sometime next week.
I did follow the link provided above by r32 for an alternative set of metal arms but they were "unavailable" when I first tried to buy them, but yesterday the link worked and I was able to buy a set to fit the new kit that I am building. This will be very interesting because these metal suspension arms are made by TAMIYA (!) and with the metal front idler wheel adjuster (that comes with them) they also work out less expensive that another set of arms from AFV.
Time will tell if any of my above alternative choices prove to be a wise investment, but when everything arrives I will be able to report back with a direct comparison between metal suspension arms to fit the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 .
AFV, KingKong and TAMIYA are the three different types of metal suspension arms that I will be fitting and testing - and as far as I know these are the ONLY three types of metal suspension arms that are available to fit the Tamiya Leopard 2A6 .....?
Never too old to learn........
Heng Long Leopard 2A6 Joins The Stable.
The second Tamiya Leopard 2A6 will be run tonight at our local club with the King Kong alloy suspension arms and AFV track tensioners with ball race axles.
I have decided to acquire a Heng Long Leopard 2A6 -mainly because i saw some for sale on eBay for £169 each including delivery- currently the best price that I have seen ......and I wanted to run one for myself alongside my Tamiya Leopard 2A6.
This is a basic all plastic standard model with 7.0 radio.
I have bought the inexpensive ball raced alloy output parts from Toucon Hobbies to support the rear axle as I understand that this may extend the life of the basic plastic gearbox....and I have seen that Mr tankalot has has some good results with his.
Unlike his Leo, I don't have the alloy suspension arms, but I see they are a very cheap option part so I will acquire some from eBay shortly, but don't intend making any other changes
I have decided to acquire a Heng Long Leopard 2A6 -mainly because i saw some for sale on eBay for £169 each including delivery- currently the best price that I have seen ......and I wanted to run one for myself alongside my Tamiya Leopard 2A6.
This is a basic all plastic standard model with 7.0 radio.
I have bought the inexpensive ball raced alloy output parts from Toucon Hobbies to support the rear axle as I understand that this may extend the life of the basic plastic gearbox....and I have seen that Mr tankalot has has some good results with his.
Unlike his Leo, I don't have the alloy suspension arms, but I see they are a very cheap option part so I will acquire some from eBay shortly, but don't intend making any other changes
Last edited by zooma on Sat Apr 20, 2024 8:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
Never too old to learn........
Both Vintage Tamiya Leos updated and running well.
My first Tamiya Leopard 2A6 is probably about 20 years old now and my second Tamiya Leopard 2A6 is probably about 16 years old.
My second Leo's "shake-down" run at the club went well last night without problem so my two "vintage" Tamiya Leos are now both fully commissioned and up-dated, although my first Leo is still running with the original plastic tension adjusters and will be fitted with a HenTEC track tension adjuster when it arrives, but apart from that, I can now just enjoy running them (and maybe try to improve my weathering skills)!
I would like to add a smoke function to them both - if the Tamiya electronics can support it ? ........and the perfect Tamiya Leo 2A6 would also have a smoking gun barrel too (!), but maybe these two features can only work on a Heng Long Leo 2A6 ?
Heng Long Leo's come with exhaust smoke as standard even in their most basic plastic version (the type that I have bought) and can be adapted to include "muzzle flash" with gun smoke too, but as far as I know there is no mechanism to cause the barrel to drop to the reloading position after each shot (like then Tamiya 2A6), so both manufacturers offer something different .
My basic "all plastic" Heng Long Leo will gain a pair of bearings on the rear axles to help extend the service life of the plastic gearbox, but other than that I have no immeadiate plans to make any changes to it (at this stage) and I will enjoy running it alongside the Tamiya Leos. It will make a very interesting comparison!
My second Leo's "shake-down" run at the club went well last night without problem so my two "vintage" Tamiya Leos are now both fully commissioned and up-dated, although my first Leo is still running with the original plastic tension adjusters and will be fitted with a HenTEC track tension adjuster when it arrives, but apart from that, I can now just enjoy running them (and maybe try to improve my weathering skills)!
I would like to add a smoke function to them both - if the Tamiya electronics can support it ? ........and the perfect Tamiya Leo 2A6 would also have a smoking gun barrel too (!), but maybe these two features can only work on a Heng Long Leo 2A6 ?
Heng Long Leo's come with exhaust smoke as standard even in their most basic plastic version (the type that I have bought) and can be adapted to include "muzzle flash" with gun smoke too, but as far as I know there is no mechanism to cause the barrel to drop to the reloading position after each shot (like then Tamiya 2A6), so both manufacturers offer something different .
My basic "all plastic" Heng Long Leo will gain a pair of bearings on the rear axles to help extend the service life of the plastic gearbox, but other than that I have no immeadiate plans to make any changes to it (at this stage) and I will enjoy running it alongside the Tamiya Leos. It will make a very interesting comparison!
Never too old to learn........
