761st Tank Battalion M4A3 in the Ardennes

[Mithras]

This thread will cover my attempts to paint and convert a proper M4A3 of the 761st Tank Battalion as it would have appeared in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. As the most accessible model to me at present is a HL 105, I shall likely be working within the framework of doing a 761st 105.

The 761st, for the uninitiated, was an African-American tank battalion, nicknamed the “Black Panthers” or, occasionally, “Patton’s Panthers.” It was of course very poorly treated by the US military establishment at the time, but gave exceptional service. It was actively engaged throughout its deployment and the Panthers were among the first to cross the Rhine.

I’ll be doing a fictional mount; there were 105s in the 761, but lacking reliable data and clear images I felt it would be more respectful to these gentlemen if I provided my own addition. The crew will be named for men of color whom I’ve known and admired: the tank’s commanding NCO will, for instance, be named for my maternal grandfather (he was Navy, but I’m sure he would overlook my rash reassignment of service….)

Update 1 is simply that the vehicle arrived today, and upon inspection, seems to be very well done. My tank is one of the “promotional” versions. 360 rotation of turret, metal tracks, road wheels, and suspension, with steel gearbox. There are no mold lines, and the mechanics seem solid. I have not yet cracked open the hull fully, but I would like to charge up the mains and run it, see how it handles, before I reach that step.

My main challenge initially will be disassembling enough of the vehicle to allow me to begin work on any additions and then make it possible to paint safely without damaging any electronics. I’ll admit I’m also torn at least about one detail, and this is that, whilst the tracks are lovely, they are entirely too clean. I doubt that any rust or mud effects would long survive active use, so I suspect I shall have to grit my teeth and assume that her constant service erm… “keeps the tracks clean.” (shudder)


If for some reason I am unable to get this working as I’d like, the alternative plan is to model the Churchill tank “Iceni,” also active in the winter of 1944/45 and, sadly, lost in action. I’ve already got an unpainted Churchill on the way so that much, at least, shouldn’t be impossible.

[MrChef]

This thread will cover my attempts to paint and convert a proper M4A3 of the 761st Tank Battalion as it would have appeared in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. As the most accessible model to me at present is a HL 105, I shall likely be working within the framework of doing a 761st 105.

The 761st, for the uninitiated, was an African-American tank battalion, nicknamed the “Black Panthers” or, occasionally, “Patton’s Panthers.” It was of course very poorly treated by the US military establishment at the time, but gave exceptional service. It was actively engaged throughout its deployment and the Panthers were among the first to cross the Rhine.

I’ll be doing a fictional mount; there were 105s in the 761, but lacking reliable data and clear images I felt it would be more respectful to these gentlemen if I provided my own addition. The crew will be named for men of color whom I’ve known and admired: the tank’s commanding NCO will, for instance, be named for my maternal grandfather (he was Navy, but I’m sure he would overlook my rash reassignment of service….)

Welcome aboard Mithras. I know of the Black Panthers but it's always good to hear more about them and to bring their history and honorable service to the forefront.

Update 1 is simply that the vehicle arrived today, and upon inspection, seems to be very well done. My tank is one of the “promotional” versions. 360 rotation of turret, metal tracks, road wheels, and suspension, with steel gearbox. There are no mold lines, and the mechanics seem solid. I have not yet cracked open the hull fully, but I would like to charge up the mains and run it, see how it handles, before I reach that step.

Of course. It's always good to do a full function and systems check before dismantling. May I ask where you got this Sherman from?

My main challenge initially will be disassembling enough of the vehicle to allow me to begin work on any additions and then make it possible to paint safely without damaging any electronics. I’ll admit I’m also torn at least about one detail, and this is that, whilst the tracks are lovely, they are entirely too clean. I doubt that any rust or mud effects would long survive active use, so I suspect I shall have to grit my teeth and assume that her constant service erm… “keeps the tracks clean.” (shudder)

Entirely depending on what if any mods you are planning on doing you do not have to disassemble the tank. It is no issue to paint it as a whole unit. So you wouldn't have to worry much about the innards. Honestly I was very hesitant to gut my first fish. But once I did I learned what everything did and more. The HL MFU is easy plug and play. Very easy to follow the included schematic plan and put it all back together.

The tracks are metal? For your concern about the tracks. You can always get a cheap set of plastic tracks to muddy up for show and keep the metal ones for running in the house.

If for some reason I am unable to get this working as I’d like, the alternative plan is to model the Churchill tank “Iceni,” also active in the winter of 1944/45 and, sadly, lost in action. I’ve already got an unpainted Churchill on the way so that much, at least, shouldn’t be impossible.

Boy you've really jumped in head first.

Of course theres support here for any tank model you choose but there is an overwhelming amount of support for the Sherman here. Just sayin...

Let's Go Mithras!!!

[Son of a gun-ner]

I’ll admit I’m also torn at least about one detail, and this is that, whilst the tracks are lovely, they are entirely too clean. I doubt that any rust or mud effects would long survive active use, so I suspect I shall have to grit my teeth and assume that her constant service erm… “keeps the tracks clean.” (shudder)

Get two sets of tracks, one for display, and one for running.

[Mithras]

This thread will cover my attempts to paint and convert a proper M4A3 of the 761st Tank Battalion as it would have appeared in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. As the most accessible model to me at present is a HL 105, I shall likely be working within the framework of doing a 761st 105.

Welcome aboard Mithras. I know of the Black Panthers but it's always good to hear more about them and to bring their history and honorable service to the forefront.

Agreed! They're a fascinating group of soldiers, with some very interesting stories to tell.

Of course. It's always good to do a full function and systems check before dismantling. May I ask where you got this Sherman from?

Purchased it on Ebay, but I believe it's one of the Toucan accounts. They shipped it incredibly quickly. Bought it last week on Christmas Eve, got a shipping notice yesterday evening, arrived today! And a nice tank it is, too. Much smaller box than the wife's Challenger II, of course;)!

Entirely depending on what if any mods you are planning on doing you do not have to disassemble the tank. It is no issue to paint it as a whole unit. So you wouldn't have to worry much about the innards. Honestly I was very hesitant to gut my first fish. But once I did I learned what everything did and more. The HL MFU is easy plug and play. Very easy to follow the included schematic plan and put it all back together.

Oh! Good! That's very good to know. So, if I didn't want to take it apart (I probably will, but good to know), I could simply spray the whole thing without many worries? (I assume I'd want to mask off the LED emitter in the gun tube.)

The tracks are metal? For your concern about the tracks. You can always get a cheap set of plastic tracks to muddy up for show and keep the metal ones for running in the house.

Not at all a bad idea. Yes, they are metal. There was a metal with rubber pads option but I missed out on it. I believe Wife's tank has that feature. I think I'll plan for having the slightly clean looking metal tracks and see how I feel about removing them before I commit to a second set, but I'm almost certain that will work for me.

Boy you've really jumped in head first.

I have. But I've loved the Churchill for a very long time, and partner felt bad her tank had arrived whilst mine was still in progress (to which I have no objection, Hermann's doing exceptionally good work!), so offered it as a gift. Couldn't say 'No.' But believe me, the guy also does an S Tank and a few other oddities... and I was very, very tempted.... If this one turns out well and it's in the budget, I might have to add to the horde. If I can fit alongside the 15mm, 20mm, and 28mm tanks;) And my 1/35s... and... and.. I can see how this is quite a rabbit hole of a hobby.

Of course theres support here for any tank model you choose but there is an overwhelming amount of support for the Sherman here. Just sayin...

Oh, I do hope to take full advantage of that. I want to do this right, and the more that folks are willing to teach, the more I'm ready to learn. As I've said elsewhere, I've been very happy with the welcoming attitude here. Many years ago, I tried to enter another hobby involving combat and rc. I was young and naive, but they were very clearly not interested in new blood, and it sort of turned me off to the whole thing. Anyway, However... this has definitely lit a spark, and you've all been incredibly supportive. (And tolerant, for that matter.)

Those of you who kept telling me to get a Tiger may be interested to know that I've been going through my old research notes again for a sourcebook I wrote on the Hungarian Army... and the idea of a Honved Tiger is not entirely unpleasant to me. Assuming this works out, maybe that'll be a project in the next few years.

Let's Go Mithras!!!

Ave, Chef!

(Love your profile picture, btw. I am an avid fan of Henson. Got Willkins and Wontkins for Christmas this year!)

[Mithras]

I’ll admit I’m also torn at least about one detail, and this is that, whilst the tracks are lovely, they are entirely too clean. I doubt that any rust or mud effects would long survive active use, so I suspect I shall have to grit my teeth and assume that her constant service erm… “keeps the tracks clean.” (shudder)

Get two sets of tracks, one for display, and one for running.

Very wise advice. I will likely do that once I'm a little more comfortable with the current setup, but not at all a bad idea.

[MrChef]

Get two sets of tracks, one for display, and one for running.

Exactly. I picked up 3 sets of plastic Tiger I tracks before we started this silliness on sale from Toucan for $3.99 each.

[Ad Lav]

This thread will cover my attempts to paint and convert a proper M4A3 of the 761st Tank Battalion as it would have appeared in the Ardennes during the Battle of the Bulge. As the most accessible model to me at present is a HL 105, I shall likely be working within the framework of doing a 761st 105.




Agreed! They're a fascinating group of soldiers, with some very interesting stories to tell.




Purchased it on Ebay, but I believe it's one of the Toucan accounts. They shipped it incredibly quickly. Bought it last week on Christmas Eve, got a shipping notice yesterday evening, arrived today! And a nice tank it is, too. Much smaller box than the wife's Challenger II, of course;)!



Oh! Good! That's very good to know. So, if I didn't want to take it apart (I probably will, but good to know), I could simply spray the whole thing without many worries? (I assume I'd want to mask off the LED emitter in the gun tube.)



Not at all a bad idea. Yes, they are metal. There was a metal with rubber pads option but I missed out on it. I believe Wife's tank has that feature. I think I'll plan for having the slightly clean looking metal tracks and see how I feel about removing them before I commit to a second set, but I'm almost certain that will work for me.




I have. But I've loved the Churchill for a very long time, and partner felt bad her tank had arrived whilst mine was still in progress (to which I have no objection, Hermann's doing exceptionally good work!), so offered it as a gift. Couldn't say 'No.' But believe me, the guy also does an S Tank and a few other oddities... and I was very, very tempted.... If this one turns out well and it's in the budget, I might have to add to the horde. If I can fit alongside the 15mm, 20mm, and 28mm tanks;) And my 1/35s... and... and.. I can see how this is quite a rabbit hole of a hobby.



Oh, I do hope to take full advantage of that. I want to do this right, and the more that folks are willing to teach, the more I'm ready to learn. As I've said elsewhere, I've been very happy with the welcoming attitude here. Many years ago, I tried to enter another hobby involving combat and rc. I was young and naive, but they were very clearly not interested in new blood, and it sort of turned me off to the whole thing. Anyway, However... this has definitely lit a spark, and you've all been incredibly supportive. (And tolerant, for that matter.)

Those of you who kept telling me to get a Tiger may be interested to know that I've been going through my old research notes again for a sourcebook I wrote on the Hungarian Army... and the idea of a Honved Tiger is not entirely unpleasant to me. Assuming this works out, maybe that'll be a project in the next few years.



Ave, Chef!

(Love your profile picture, btw. I am an avid fan of Henson. Got Willkins and Wontkins for Christmas this year!)

Holy moly that’s a lot of quoting! Makes for difficult reading!

Good luck with the build, show us what your made of.

Photos wouldn’t go amiss

[Meter rat]

Even though WW2 tanks are not really my thing. I’m looking forward to reading the (hopefully) accompanying history. Oh! And of course the build.

[Son of a gun-ner]

Holy moly that’s a lot of quoting! Makes for difficult reading!

Good luck with the build, show us what your made of.

Photos wouldn’t go amiss

I discovered the reason for the confusing quotes and rectified it

[jarndice]

My first tour in Germany we were allocated the Eifel area which is the German side of the Ardenne as our defensive zone against the Soviet armed forces,
Both areas are thickly forested which because of its wartime history makes the foresters jobs a nightmare,
Most of the mature trees have to be felled by hand because inevitably a Chainsaw will break as it strikes a mortar fragment or artillery schrapnel or rifle bullets,
Driving offroad is a pain because the "Dragonsteeth" that were layed down in the last unpleasantness are still there,
As far as we were concerned and this applied to the German army of the day it is a brilliant natural defensive area and I will watch with interest your views as you explore the history of the 761st combat history in the Ardenne.