RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

I have just acquired this second hand. Am I right in thinking that the basic Taigen tank uses a Heng Long hull and turret with Taigen running gear and tracks and ‘metal’ gearboxes? That’s what I’ve got anyway. My real question concerns track tension. I’ve read that a real PIV has 101 links per side. I haven’t counted mine (yet) but the tracks sag a lot and when going forwards their is a sort of outward curve between the sprocket and front road wheel. Is that correct? Finally. Is there an easy way to get the track pins out - I don’t like hammering! And is there a cover I can remove over the sprocket? I might want to take the tracks off so that I can paint everything!!
Many thanks in advance
Simon

Simon Hi,
The Taigen PZ4 is not the same as the Heng Long PZ4 although initial inspection of the 2 might make you draw such a conclusion,After all they both suffer the same design faults such as the front sprockets need adjusting and the flat engine deck should be tapered from the turret ring down to the tail plate by 5 mm and the trailing (4th) roller on both sides needs dropping by 3/5 mm,
The Taigen Hull is available in metal with a flat floor the Heng Long hull is not and comes with a battery box that takes up too much space in the ABS hull,
(Tip, Cut it out and level the hull floor with epoxy resin)
The Taigen Turret is now after many years finally the most accurate on any PZ4 including what used to be the best PZ4 in 1/16, Tamiya
Heng Long have for many years provided all the external fixtures and fittings on sprues that you can add after you have finished painting and weathering the Tank, it also gives you the easy option of using aftermarket metal tools and other fittings instead of those provided whereas Taigen mold all the fixtures and fittings onto the Tank body which makes it a pain in the A*se to paint and weather your Tank and it is hard work cutting off the tools and fittings should you wish to replace them with aftermarket metal ones.
The Panzer 4 as a quick look at photographs of the time show that they usually ran with the tracks quite loose but track tensioners are readily available from Dave and Dom,
Taking out track pins should not be too easy or they would come out while the Tank is running,
Just be aware that the track pin is wider at one end so using a spare track pin just tap the end against the narrow end of the pin and as the pin becomes free grip that end with a pair of pliers and pull it free.
I do not understand what you mean about "Covers" please explain.
I have not seen a new Heng Long Panzer 4 on sale for over 18 months but my policy is to buy a Heng Long body, a Taigen NEW model turret and a Taigen metal hull but if you do buy the Taigen metal hull be prepared for a lot of metalwork correcting the many failings that come built in

Evening Colonel!
Right, so I have a HL lower hull - with the HL logo covered - and a HL upper hull I'm sure - some tools like the spade and axe moulded in but others - like crow bars, jack, S hooks - as separate parts (although I am missing a lot of those!) And a plastic turret. So, I guess someone has taken a HL tank, replaced the running gear and tracks with Taigen and fitted metal (not steel) gearboxes and a Taigen radio. I ran it this morning and it all works so everything else is cosmetic and I have a plan!

I have a strong belief (PM me if you want to know why ) that the HL PIV will be available towards the end of May with the latest HL MFU, etc. When I picked up the PIV I also acquired a Jagdpanzer IV conversion so my idea is to use that with a brand new HL tank. For some reason I think that I won't be able to use all of the tools from the PIV on the JPIV and so I can use them with the PIV I presently have. I'm sure there's a fault in that plan - like a JPIV needs a jack for a start!

The PIV also came with an ATAK zimmerit kit (which I now understand is slightly hard to get?) and a schurzen kit which consists of brackets, side plates and a sheet for the turret ring to be warmed up and curved. All this by 'Armoured Models by 3D Workshop', as I'm new to this game that name means nothing to me! I have no idea how much those two sets would have cost (the seller said around £100 ?) but my original idea was to make the schurzen plates with 0.5 or 0.75mm aluminium sheet and then do a bit of silver soldering with brass strip for the brackets. Hopefully this aftermarket stuff will make life a bit easier!

By 'covers' I meant sprocket centre caps. I'm pretty sure I should be able to lever these off and then unbolt the sprockets and remove the tracks for painting. I assume that the idlers are in two halves screwed together? I doubt that they need to come off but how are the road wheels fixed? I can see that they have separate tyres so they are Taigen.

A brief history of the Panzer 4 they were in production from 1939 through to 1945 from the first Ausf A to B,C,D,E,F,G,H and finally J.
The late model G was the first PZ4 with Schurzen armour the G and the early H only had it around the Turret the late H and all the Js had the side armour as well as the Turret armour,
The G which initially was given the Ausf "F2" designator was upgunned with the long 75 taking over the Panzer111s role prior to that it had gone through a number of Turret guns all being short as part of the Infantry support role for which the short gun was most suited,
Zimmeritt was first fitted on the Tanks in the Russian campaign to defeat the magnetic mines that the German army expected to be thrown at them,
Sometime in the middle of 1944 a desk clerk in Berlin realised that the only army with magnetic mines was the German Army, Dohhh,
Although the British army developed the "Sticky Bomb" towards the end of the conflict,
Shortly after the Tigers and PZ4s amongst other had the Zimmeritt removed so the middle and late model Ausf J was not usually seen with it and the side armour was changed to an open pattern panel on each side instead of the earlier coated armour plate,
Tamiya's Schurzen is a very good fit and very affordable,there are instructions on the forum that you can download to get it right,
Check the top of this page for the download section and scroll down to the Tamiya PZ4 Tank Manual.
A search of the Forum will bring up dealers addresses who can supply every tool and fitting for the PZ4 in metal and other materials,
The front sprocket has a hub cap which is too often mistakenly glued in place, It should be a firm push fit which thumb and finger nails should be able to prise free,If yours is loose use either magnets or threadlock to retain it,
If it has been glued in place you will need to drill through the centre of the cap and undo the Hex screw that holds the sprocket to the end of the Gearbox output shaft,
The eccentric angle that your sprocket is running at indicates that the gearbox is loose on its mounting or that the Gearbox output Shaft is bent,
Remove the sprocket and open the Tank to check the Gearbox mounts are tight, if they are check to see if the previous owner fitted gearbox output shaft bearings if not Buy and fit them before doing anything else,
If the output shaft is bent now would be a good time to fit new gearboxes, Heng Long do a very nice and quiet set, look for the "Heng Long Ultimate Edition 11 Short Shaft Steel Gears" at £49.99 available at http://www.forgebeartanks.com who can supply them as he can the 8mm output shaft bearings and lots of other useful bits and pieces,
I have built nearly a dozen PZ4s of various variants and I am blowed if I can remember how to fit and remove the main wheels,
I shall get back to you on that Sorry
I hope that helps.

Good afternoon - finally got back to you. Thank you very much for the potted history which will be very useful. I am presently reading a book - the Images of War Special by Anthony Tucker-Jones - as it seemed to be a better reference than the Tankcraft series book which got a bit of a panning!

I had already downloaded the Tamiya instructions but I've now printed off a hard copy - much better to have some bits of paper to flick through in my opinion!

I have now removed the sprocket caps - a tight fit but not glued. I'll have to dig out an allen key as this one is a size larger than the one I have commonly found with Heng Long tanks but I'll have the tracks off at some point to repaint.
Luckily the gearbox output shafts aren't bent so no problem there but I've had a look on the Forgebear site but couldn't find any bearings. I haven't had a look to see if I need pair yet. I had the top off on Tuesday to see what I'd got when the parcel arrived but I didn't particularly notice bearings so I'll have to have a proper look.

I also acquired a Jagdpanzer IV at the same time as the Panzer IV so I had already downloaded the instructions for the Vandra conversion and Ive now printed hard copies of that off to but I'm not sure if it is the Vandra conversion - I see that there was a Profiline conversion to and a Tamiya kit (I've just downloaded the instructions for that and I'll print off the upper hull parts).

Not sure if I'll alter the position of the rear roller - not really a problem if you have the schurzen fitted I suppose.

I've noticed that the HL upper hull is indeed different from the Taigen one, particularly the driver's and radio operator's hatches but they both seem to have a selection of moulded in tools as well but in different positions.

The 8mm Gearbox Output Shaft Bearings £18.99 are on http://www.Forgebeartanks.com site under Tiger 1 (Sub Page 3) do not get confused by the 7.99mm bearings on Sub Page 2.
If you are going for full schurzen I can only assume you will be building a PZ4 Ausf H or J which are subtly different from the Heng Long/Taigen/Torro F2/G,
The Cupola having a single hatch instead of the twin/split hatch and the radio aerial mounted on the left rear flank instead of on the opposite side in the middle of the body and it only has one headlight which is also on the left side and no Notek lamp,
With the relocation of the aerial the the aerial deflector is redundant and is no longer fitted to the main gun.
The late G onwards had updated bolt on applique armour in front of the Driver and Radio operator,
A very nice Bolt on Applique upgrade is available from our own WOZ c/o Shapeways.
WOZ Prints a lot of PZ4 upgrades such as hinged front and rear fenders which I heartily endorse as they are some of the first modifications that I fit to each PZ4 I build.

Hi Shaun
I am still reading through the images of war book on the PIV but I’ve worked out I have an F2 anyway. It would be easy to make a G by removing the two ports in the turret sides and the one on the right side of the turret. Of course this book suggests in one of the profiles that you can make a G with full schurzen but you say that the G only had the turret schurzen?
So an H would require a circular cupola hatch - hinged on the left and a relocation of the aerial to the left rear corner? Technically the H should also have the revised sprocket but no one seems to do one for a PIV? A bit of a minefield isn’t it?!! As for the 4th roller mount, probably no point if you are using full schurzen? Not sure what I’m going to do now! A G would be the easiest modification but full schurzen looks good and of course it should have a different muzzle brake for a G! That’s where you could do with a bit of resin! I am not familiar with WOZ’s products - or how much they cost? As for bearings, a mate of mine has a lathe and I’m thinking that a pair of plain brass bearings would be a good alternative to the ones available in from Dave!

From what I have been informed by one of my mates that is a P4 tragic, the first of the F2 to G versions did only carry turret schurzen but only due to supply problems. The full skirt sets soon followed as more factories took up manufacturing.
Replacement muzzle brakes are available in brass by Taigen.
Be great to see what you do with yours

HERMAN BIX wrote:From what I have been informed by one of my mates that is a P4 tragic, the first of the F2 to G versions did only carry turret schurzen but only due to supply problems. The full skirt sets soon followed as more factories took up manufacturing.
Replacement muzzle brakes are available in brass by Taigen.
Be great to see what you do with yours

Thank you Herman! I used to use Photobucket for images but I stopped when they started charging and I tend not to bother now! I'm happy to send e-mails to individuals with photos but I find it a pain to use these hosting services. Thanks for the info about the F2 and G. I read that the G didn't have the side turret vision ports - because of the schurzen - but the F2 did so I'm not sure if you could have an F2 with turret schurzen? I can understand that there might have been a crossover period between F2 and G when schurzen might have been possible though and of course I can imagine a G might get side skirts especially if it went back to the factory for repairs or updates? I looked at Taigen muzzle brakes. Only seem to be available with barrels. I understand that there were 4 designs of brake for the long gun so you'd think that you could get one of any of the 4 in resin, never mind brass. It would cost £10 or so to get a Taigen with twin vents but it might come to that!

Most of the schurzen sets were fitted as kits in rear area depots until the full production versions came out.keep in mind the vehicles already in theatre when the idea came up. All these would have required the kits, and as the turret sets came first, makes sense to delete the vision ports from later manufacture machines .
I’m not into them like done are, and the version changes are many & varied.
I will try to get my P4’aholic mate to do a list of likely changes by year if he can. The guy has literally thousands of dollars worth of high end books that cover the entire known universe of P4’s so if he can be assed to do it, the info will be right!