RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

43rdRecceReg wrote:In any event, using a high or low bustle turret to make an M4 Firefly conversion
seems valid.

Sadly not. Just like large hatches, high bustle turrets don't feature on fireflies.
You've shown a picture where the turret is the D50878 low bustle version.

There's a bewildering array of detail changes to the Sherman, depending on Manufacturere, Model and year. There's an 'early' low bustle, and late 'low' bustle for example , and they look distinct.
The High bustle was introduced to allow clearance for bigger hatches, as far as I can tell. Clearly, the Firefly needed a large loader's hatch (and hence the unique rectangular design we see on them); but the point I'm making- going back to the orginal theme is that it's:
1. Not necessary to have a three-piece gearbox to make a Firefly, nor:
2. an elongated M4A4 chassis, as the M4A3 hull will suffice. Similarly, High and Low bustle turrets can be used.
3. M4 ICs came with a mix of High and low bustle turrets, (some remanufactured from earlier models)- though the majority of Vc (M4A4) Fireflies had high bustle turrets. So, with a bit of skill the standard model turret can be modded to be a passable Firefly type without too much Sturm und Drang. There are examples of it in the archives here. One of the best (if not THE best) is here:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7885&hilit=M4A3+co ... to+Firefly The turret mods are outstanding, and relevant to a M4 1c build, although the hull is the M4A1 type.

The issue with converting a M4A3 model (105mm or 75mm) to a firefly is likely to be with making the correct size hatches, and having the correct glacis angle (60 deg).
here's a useful pic of the variations in glacis angle:

I think that all the later Tamiya nd HL variants probably have the 47 deg glacis. However, it's to a massive to modifcation for someone with a razor saw skillset.
Here's a quick develomental diag of the 75mm turrets Fireflies were derived from:

43rdRecceReg wrote:though the majority of Vc (M4A4) Fireflies had high bustle turrets.

Again this rubbish. They stopped production of the M4A4 prior to the introduction of the high bustle turret.
If you find a picture of an M4A4 with a high bustle it will be because it was fitted post war as either something cobbled together as a museum piece or out of sheer desperation as in the case of IDF examples.

Roy, you say the M4 Ic came with a mix of high and low bustle turrets. Sorry, the M4 came with a mix of both, but the Ic (meaning Sherman one with a 17 pounder gun) only came with low bustle.
There are no photos of a firefly with a high bustle turret. Just like there are no photos of a Sherman 2 (M4A1 cast) with a 17 pounder in Europe.

Bringing us back on topic here. There is a resin cast kit available for the upper and turret of a firefly Herman.it Can be bought from forgebear and I think Ludwig or vandra. You also already have the gun barrel and extending the hull isn’t as big a job as it seems. If you want to use what you have it is a little more work but possible. There are threads on here that show a high bustle turret being made into a low bustle I have a spare mantlet (metal) as well as small hatches you could have and the engine deck could be scratch built quite easily or a printed version is on shapeways

oh, oh.... FYI Vandra and forgebear are out of kits and won't have anymore. I only have a couple left and am attempting to put together some more put prices just keep rising and rising. I have sold over 100 kits now so perhaps it has reached builders saturation point for now...

dgsselkirk wrote:oh, oh....

firefly high bustle.jpg

Oh, that is a very rare picture of an M4 Ic Dean, although the top of the bustle looks sloped like a low bustle, the clearance underneath would imply a high bustle.
Well, I stand corrected. Although what Roy was saying about more high bustle than low is incorrect. And the earlier picture is still a low bustle.

Absolutely, I agree almost all were low bustle. I think the few were only in the hybrids. I will check my references some more too but the point is just depends on if you want a relatively accurate Firefly or just stick a radio box and a big barrel and call it done... LOL!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5TqD5xf0ic

I feel like that guy !!

See, its damn "Sherm-ick Cubes" options & combinations that put me off building one
I guess I could live with a stick a radio box and a barrel on it & call it done ..................

I have one of Dean's kits in the stash waiting to be built. One of these days I will get around to building it. I've learned that if there is something on the market that I *might* want to build I should buy it as things tend to disappear in our hobby never to be seen again.