Son of a gun-ner wrote:Roy, you say the M4 Ic came with a mix of high and low bustle turrets. Sorry, the M4 came with a mix of both, but the Ic (meaning Sherman one with a 17 pounder gun) only came with low bustle.
There are no photos of a firefly with a high bustle turret. Just like there are no photos of a Sherman 2 (M4A1 cast) with a 17 pounder in Europe.
I say a mix, Mick, because the M4 ICs were predominantly of the hooded small hatch type (prior to the big hatch 47deg glacis models, and the high bustle turrets), and there was not an issue of hatch clearance with them- and therefore a need for a higher bustle. From what I've read, the Brits would have been supplied with a mix of low (then high), and even recycled turrets for conversion to Firefly' status.
Here's an observation from Armorama, for example:
"...The high bustle turret began to replace the low bustle turret on Shermans with the change over to the large hatch 47 degree hull and there was an issue of hatch clearance. Its use on fireflies seems top have been limited to the hybrid Ic though in most photos it is hard to distinguish and it may have been used on some Firefly VC’c..."
Equally, some of the photos on turret development found on the amazing Sherman Minutiae website, the difference between the tow types is not always clear...but then again, my visist to Specsavers is long overdue, thanks to Covid..
...High bustle
...Low bustle.
In the end, I don't think it's worth worrying about, unless you're making models for a museum.
Given the reluctance of the Americans to supply the Brits with their own favoured M4A3, I wouldn't be surprised if British Firefly adaptors took whatever turrets the US had spare, low and high. They took the M4A4, for example, which was practically a US reject.
When the original companies manufacturing Sherman variants were rediced to three, there must have been a lot of dated stock left over.
The point I'm trying to make, however, is that it's possible to make an 'acceptable' Firefly out of available M4A3 models, and M4A1 models, without incurring the bizarre, and neurotic, ire of ultra rivet counters.
the M4 IC should be do-able from existing RTR models, supported by some medium level scratch build skills.
All it takes, is
one precedent. I've even seen a pic of a Firely 17-Pounder turret mounted on an American M4A3 hull. It was used at the Aberdeen proving grounds to test the gun out. So, a model based on this example wouldn't cross that threshold we've seen of deeming a M4A3 (75 or 105) model a 'Firefly, simply by the inclusion of a 17-pdr barrel and a resin radio box (as per a well-known, and now well-respected tank vendor
). It should have the right turret (pretty much); with radio box; VVSS; 17-pdr gun and mantlet; pre-all vision commander's cupola (don't know of any examples of Fireflies with the all-round cupola), a rear storage box- and a Brit or Canadian commander.
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.