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Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 pm
by wibblywobbly
Using You Tube vids and some neat software, I downloaded clips of the Bovington Tiger. I then fed them through the software and extracted the sound as .wav files.  :D

As you can imagine there is a lot of background noise so I spent hours going through, and deleting any segment with anything other than engine noises. I was left with about 4 seconds of sound?  >:(

I then put this through another program and split it down into 400ms segments. Then I had to use another program to convert these files into 8 bit, 22mhz, mono files.  :o

Then, I took the sound card out my Elmod, loaded it into my pc, and replaced the standard engine sounds with the ones that I had created.  8)

....and they are so quiet I can hardly hear them!!! Dammit, back to the drawing board.  :'(

Rob G

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:08 pm
by Matdragon
ahh damn mate a real shame :(

godd try though, dont give up!! :D

Matt

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:51 am
by Saxondog
Hey wibbly,have you any experience with RCCOMMANDS new sound card system or the system offered by CREEPING DEATH? Just wondering?Saxondog

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:07 am
by wibblywobbly
I have heard both, but not experienced a live version of either. The Creeping Death system would actually be ok if they abandoned their pursuit of volume and could change the sound for something less abrasive. It is a proportional system, which is good, but sounds like a V8 hotrod on steroids.

The RC Command system at present (as far as I am aware) only covers the IR system and battle sounds, it doesn't provide engine sounds. As I understand it they are developing an engine sound system.

However, it is a fully functional proportional engine sound system that is the golden chalice for all systems. It is not easy to achieve, and here is the reason why. The main board takes signals from the tx, so, if you push the stick forward then it needs to take that signal and firstly translate that into powering the motors. It would also need to extract a 'sound' from a sound file and send it to the amplifier, and the amplifier sends it to the speaker.

This may sound simple enough, but let's say that you push the stick forwards and the tank generates a 'rev the engine and engage first gear' sound. Now, you decide that you don't want to go forwards, you want to go backwards? The system has to generate a decelleration sound, brake sound, change down sound, change gear into reverse sound, and then a reversing engine sound...at which point the user may decide to push the stick sideways...?

Although the speaker is generating what appears to be constant sound, it isn't. The Elmod system has 40 sound bites for normal engine running alone. They are each around 0.2 seconds long. If you play one sound bite it is tiny. What the system does is monitor the tx stick, and if it is pushed in a particular direction then it plays one sound bite after another (randomly believe it or not) so that the user cannot hear the joins.

Why are the sound bites so short? It is because if the tx stick is moved then a different sound is sent to the amplifier. If the sound bites were say one second long then the last one would keep playing until it had finished, and then start the new one. This would cause a conflict between the tx stick position and the sound being heard in relation to what the tank was doing.

The engine start up sounds are several seconds long, this is possible because until that sound has finished playing, the tx controls are inactive.

You can add to that the fact that the Elmod system is 5 channel polyphonic, and that means that in addition to all of the engine sounds, you get track squeak, braking squeaks, gun fire, mg etc etc. They can all be heard at the same time and independently. The main gun is also linked to the IR and muzzle flash so it all works together.

Tiger v2 Elmod Sound Files Updated

What Elmod have achieved with sound is way beyond what the Tamiya units do, however, the Elmod unit is still lacking when it comes to getting power to the motors.

This is why I have doubts that RCCommand can build a budget proportional sound system as they claimed. It is horrendously complex, and it is only the likes of Benidini and Elmod that have solved it. Their systems cost rather more than the RC Command units, and they have been in the development process for years.

For a budget sound system, I would go the Creeping Death route, but they need to change the engine sound to something more like a real Tiger 1, as it isn't programmable. What is interesting is that Tamiya proudly claim that their sounds are taken from a real King Tiger at Saumer. Anyone who has heard the Tiger 1 at Bovington which is running the same KT Maybach engine will know that it sounds nothing like the Tamiya?

That's enough rambling from me...I have to figure out how to get real Tiger 1 sounds onto my Elmod chip!!

Rob G

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:11 pm
by tankman
Never mimd Rob mate you will get it in the end  ;D
Alan

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:08 pm
by grim_marmazet
I think the difference in the sound is because it was recorded from a King Tiger, indoors, and using equipment that is vastly inferior to what we would use today.
If I had the money and knowledge to do so, i'd love to plug a Benedini into the Tamiya DMD. Does anyone know if thats even possible?

Cheers,
Rik

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:33 pm
by wibblywobbly
You must be a mind reader, I have just been looking at the Benedini site and then came back here. I doubt that their unit can be plugged into a Tamiya one, all of these system operate to their own individual standards so nothing is remotely interchangeable.

I have to confess that the Benedini site confuses the heck out of me, they have so many boards and products I wouldn't know what to order even if I wanted one! The large scale Stug in their demo section sounds awesome though!

http://www.benedini.de/Stug1a.mpg

Tiger - and it sounds just like the real thing!

Late Model Tiger I with Benedini(.de) Sound system

Plus..and I do try to please, this guy has the Creeping Death unit in his Tamiya Sherman..and to my untrained ear it isn't that bad??

Creeping Death Sound Module in Tamiya Sherman

His full write up is here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8970162/anchors_8974025/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8974025

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:45 pm
by grim_marmazet
The sound on that Tiger is incredible! I agree with you Rob, the CD system just doesn't sound right, its more like a chav hairdryer-on-wheels.  :P

Im wondering if they system just does engine noise though. I haven't seen any videos of gun of MG noise. I know the TBS 5 unit generates the noise based off the current flowing to the motors, which would give proportional sound, so it would be possible to replace the Tamiya engine sound, by simply plugging the speaker into the Benedini unit instead. Main gun and MG noise would be a different thing though.

Its the one thing I miss about the el-mod system, the sound is awesome, and I loved the track and brake squeaking.

Cheers,
Rik

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:02 pm
by Matdragon
That bendini sounds great! very load too! :D

the creedpingdeath module, im sorry to say it, but in my Personaly opinion i think its a bit of a hunk 'a' junk made ! i'd rather have hl sounds to be honest, its not recored atall, its made electronically. granted some people like that.. but not me :( Plus you loose all your other sounds, gun fire, mg sound, turret turn .... makes me sad :'( whats makes me even sadder is that somebody replaced tamiya sounds with it!!!! granted its cheap, but id rather pay money to Not have it in one of my tanks than pay to put it in :( I've got nothing against creeping death and i know all he's tring to do is ame a good affordable system, and he's doing his bit to push the hobby along, and for that i thanks him. i just simply dont see the point of this module :( [/rant] :D

cheers,

Matt

Re: Trying to be a smarty pants...

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:08 pm
by wibblywobbly
Ah, but if you read the write up on R* U******* you will see that he hasn't adjusted the sound at all, he has yet to play with the settings. Also if you listen to the vid, you will notice that the CD unit is proportional, and according to what I have read, it is linked to motor voltage, so in that respect it is pretty clever for what it is. I reckon just one speaker, lower volume, and less bass, and it would sound a lot better. I also suspect that as the guy is recording in a concrete building, there is a lot of echo. I would like to hear one in the flesh so that I could get a better idea. $75 is a lot of money just to find out though!

If CD could 'mellow' that sound it would be a good budget sound system. I am not a great fan of Tamiya 2 step sounds, so if I had an old Sherman in a cupboard I would bung a CD unit in it for $75, the only drawback being the batteries! Where the heck do you fit them?

There is also a company called SFX in Canada who do some really high quality systems, but I have yet to see one fitted to a tank.