RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

Of the series of 'Top Five Tanks' reviews put out by the Tank Museum, this is one of the best, In my opinion. In simple terms, he gives his own criteria for a 'good' tank.
I particularly liked the mention of the Russian method of retaining track pins in the T34. It was incredibly crude; but actually worked. But that was true of a lot of WW2 Russian hardware.


By contrast, it's well worth looking at the five worst British tanks segment by the 'Moustache of Knowledge', David Fletcher Some of the tanks here could have been much better, but for crucial (correctable)
flaws. Like the Charioteer's thinly armoured turret, for example:


To balance things up, he also looks at non-British tanks. Fans of the Jagdtiger won't be pleased

Quite a few guests- aside from the well-known experts- have been invited by the Tank Museum to offer their personal take on the 'Top 5 Tanks' theme (and it's not limited to WW2). I'd say, on average, the Centurion comes out on top.
It's arguably the best tank ever built. All the more astonishing then, that the likes of Tamiya, Heng Long, Taigen and Mato haven't seen fit to produce either a Ready To Run or Kit version (Tamiya) of the tank, in 1/16.
The Panther probably comes a very close second in the general esteem, but is well represented at the model availability level, unlike the overlooked Centurion- a tank that is still in use in some parts of the World almost seventy-five years after it was designed.

Wardog wrote:Maybe that's a good thing that its a limited.something mass produced the quality may drop.I can't say about other brands only Henglong.
Back to the matter Sherman tank must be high on anyone's list,some make overs some changes but still working even today.

Yes, the Sherman does seem to have a loyal following. It was dependable, but otherwise fairly limited, I think- except in production numbers, and volume production certainly accounts for some of its success.
I guess, the very best tanks (like Main Battle Tanks) fulfil all the roles that were previously divided up amongst Infantry tanks, Tank destroyers, Combat tanks (tank on Tank) etc. In WW2, the Sherman was originally conceived as an infantry support Tank, which is why, until the Firefly came along it was hopelessly mismatched against the Panther, Tiger, and even the Long Barrelled Pz IV.
Worse still, its high profile in the landscape was a fatal design characteristic, as it helped fill the German gunsights (much to their delight, I'm sure), and thus made it a much easier target than a Cromwell, for instance.
The Sherman was, honestly, a middling sort of tank. Only a tank-for-all-combat situations (in WW2) like the Panther, could be described as good. That said, it's impossible not to have a feeling of affection for it. , despite the infamous 'Tommy Cooker' nickname.

The only part of what contributes to a bad tank that I don’t agree with, especially in the case of German WW2 ones, is that XYZ tank was expensive.
First they were using much raw material from conquered nations where possible, labour also was forced at times so cheap or free, any over all, what else were they going to spend stolen gold and paintings on if not expensive tanks !!

HERMAN BIX wrote:The only part of what contributes to a bad tank that I don’t agree with, especially in the case of German WW2 ones, is that XYZ tank was expensive.
First they were using much raw material from conquered nations where possible, labour also was forced at times so cheap or free, any over all, what else were they going to spend stolen gold and paintings on if not expensive tanks !!

True! When you look at the engineering abomination that the T34 was (The Turret had the texture of a mudpack facial.. ), and the clean lines of the Panther, you begin to realise that all those man-hours spent building, (recovering) and repairing those micrometer perfect Panzers, contributed to the ultimate demise of the axis forces. It's the same with the MP40 and the Sten Gun. Or the M16 and the Ak47. Over-engineered vs. basic and (reliably) functional... If not millimetre perfect. Eventually, the Germans even began making their own rudimentary sub-machine gun- along the lines of the Sten. By then, however, the War was lost.
I wonder how much it would cost to build an uncomplicated, but effective competitor, or opponent, for the eye-wateringly expensive F35, for example?

WW2 was the probably the last time that tanks had any possibility of being effective. If there is ever another armed conflict between the well armed nations all tanks on a battlefield are likely to be targetted from hundreds of miles away, and obliterated by missiles fired from bases well beyond their range. I wouldn't want to be sat in a tank in the next conflict, that's for sure.

wibblywobbly wrote:WW2 was the probably the last time that tanks had any possibility of being effective. If there is ever another armed conflict between the well armed nations all tanks on a battlefield are likely to be targetted from hundreds of miles away, and obliterated by missiles fired from bases well beyond their range. I wouldn't want to be sat in a tank in the next conflict, that's for sure.

Yes, I guess the writing was on the wall for tanks as early as WW2, with the evolution of handheld anti-tank weapons such as the Panzerfaust. Tanks were also shown to be highly vulnerable from the air. A recent programme I watched on the crushing of German forces in the Falaise Gap, suggested that rocket-firing Hawker Typhoons accounted for 175 German tanks in one day alone.
Even though the Brits came up with Chobham armour, and Infrared and digital systems have been added to modern tanks, they are still vulnerable to air attack and handheld weaponry.
Still- we keep building them.

Even though the Brits came up with Chobham armour, and Infrared and digital systems have been added to modern tanks, they are still vulnerable to air attack and handheld weaponry.
Still- we keep building them. [/quote]

You might like to discuss the on-going production of Tanks in the UK with the former employees of Vickers Crossgates plant in Leeds (Closed in 1999), (Now a warehouse for M&S)
The continuing production of Tanks being transferred to the BAE Scotswood Plant in Newcastle upon Tyne(Closed in 2012)(Recently reopened after being sold for sub-contract work for the defence industry)
Great Britain no longer builds Tanks for the British or indeed anyone else's Army.
I am a proud Briton but sometimes my resolve takes a hammering.

Bearing in mind that "BAE Weapons Systems" is doing very nicely thank you in the USA with many American Armaments Companies in its portfolio where do you think the next MBT for the British Army will be coming from ?
The American Bell X1 was the first aircraft to break the sound barrier in level flight, What most people do not know is that the British Government had given Miles Aircraft a Contract to build an aircraft to break the sound barrier and it was almost ready to make a series of test flights,
The American Government were told by Bell that the X1 would not succeed in its present form but they had discovered that the British project included a "Flying Tail Plane",
Guess what, Lo and behold the British project was cancelled overnight and not long after the Bell X1 was rolled out with a "Flying Tailplane" and history was made
TSR2 Cancelled overnight because of American Pressure,
The Canadian Avro Arrow cancelled overnight because of American pressure (quite simply it was vastly superior to anything the American aviation industry was able to make and the US aviation industry would lose a fortune across the whole of NATO if the Avro Arrow went on the Market).
Concorde cancelled because the American Government forbade overflights of the USA (Subsonic)which caused massive cutbacks in orders for the aircraft so that only Air France and BA bought it after pressure from their national governments,
Just coincidence that Boeings SST programme was cancelled at the same time having been seen to be a putative commercial failure when compared to the Anglo-French project.
I have no complaint with fair competition but as the Chinese are discovering the USA does not play fair.

jarndice wrote:Bearing in mind that "BAE Weapons Systems" is doing very nicely thank you in the USA with many American Armaments Companies in its portfolio where do you think the next MBT for the British Army will be coming from ?
The American Bell X1 was the first aircraft to break the sound barrier in level flight, What most people do not know is that the British Government had given Miles Aircraft a Contract to build an aircraft to break the sound barrier and it was almost ready to make a series of test flights,
The American Government were told by Bell that the X1 would not succeed in its present form but they had discovered that the British project included a "Flying Tail Plane",
Guess what, Lo and behold the British project was cancelled overnight and not long after the Bell X1 was rolled out with a "Flying Tailplane" and history was made
TSR2 Cancelled overnight because of American Pressure,
The Canadian Avro Arrow cancelled overnight because of American pressure (quite simply it was vastly superior to anything the American aviation industry was able to make and the US aviation industry would lose a fortune across the whole of NATO if the Avro Arrow went on the Market).
Concorde cancelled because the American Government forbade overflights of the USA (Subsonic)which caused massive cutbacks in orders for the aircraft so that only Air France and BA bought it after pressure from their national governments,
Just coincidence that Boeings SST programme was cancelled at the same time having been seen to be a putative commercial failure when compared to the Anglo-French project.
I have no complaint with fair competition but as the Chinese are discovering the USA does not play fair.

Wouldn't quibble with any points you've made here, Shaun. By 'we' (...'Still, we keep build them"...) I was referring to warmongers in general.
As for the 'all flying tailplane', there was a documentary a few years back dealing with efforts to break the sound barrier. Apparently, A Spitfire came close in a dive once. But anyway, the test flight of the Miles M-52 prototype was getting close when the project was cancelled, and the designs (including the crucial tailplane) were forwarded to the Yanks. The rest is history, as they say...but it's also 'bunk', when some of the essential details are routinely omitted, or rewritten. Miles M-52- below