RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

A little while ago I asked whether Tamiya 1/16 tanks were closer in scale and detail to their real counterparts. Now I'm wondering which of the Heng Long/ Taigen/Torro range is the least accurate model. My guess is the Panzer IV. Having just looked at 100s of Pics of the PZ IV (yes, I must be another sad b**tard )..on these sites: http://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/ ... tanks-2-3/ and http://www.worldwar2aces.com/panzer-tank/ as well as
http://www.achtungpanzer.com, I couldn't find a single photo of the Pz IV where the storage bin on the turret looked even vaguely like the one on the HL/T/T range of models. The bin is hopelessly wrong. The top should be level with the turret roof, not creeping up behind the cupola like some sort of mechanical 'Wedgie'
As for the notorious 4th return roller, even if it were to be lowered slightly on Taigen models (as per the full size version..), it would still look wrong, because the Idler wheel is too large on the model. Then there's that engine deck slope...on HL/T/T models, it's more a plateau than a slope. I just think they must have not done the Japanese thing of sending out a rep with a tape measure, and note book, and just approximated dimensions.
Arnie's new Taigen Panzer IV looks great (and they're not cheap..), but sadly displays all these major flaws, even with a revised Turret bin. Are there any worse examples out there than the Pz IV?

I think the turret bin was made like that so as the BB unit inside had room to move when being depressed , going down , not sad.
I think you will find the Bulldog is far , far more out of scale then the P4.
Peeps have been known to cut it in half to narrow it and cut some of the lower chassis off to lower the top down.
Real hardcore modellers have even sat down and cut the track links in half , cut a bit out and reglue them together as they are to wide.

The Panzer IV certainly has some major "challenges" for anyone concerned with scale accuracy but I think you're forgetting the infamous Pantiger. A friend of mine once rebuilt one in the days when it was the only Panther on the market and there was a serious amount of major surgery involved.

Hi, Despite the major issues described, I am still grateful for Heng Long to have produced these models at a very affordable price. Just for the PZ IV, I purchased 9 of them over the years. Heng Long basically initiated a new hobby of corrections, enhancements, conversions and after market accessories. It would have been nice if they had been better but I will never pay US $1000 for a Tamiya Jagdpanzer IV. Quality has a cost.

Aussie wrote:I think the turret bin was made like that so as the BB unit inside had room to move when being depressed , going down , not sad.
I think you will find the Bulldog is far , far more out of scale then the P4.
Peeps have been known to cut it in half to narrow it and cut some of the lower chassis off to lower the top down.
Real hardcore modellers have even sat down and cut the track links in half , cut a bit out and reglue them together as they are to wide.

Yes, Aussie, something like that had crossed my mind too, but just confirm that, I've just had a peek inside a spare HL airsoft turret for the Pz IV, and it's not so much a case of accommodating the BB unit, as finding a place for the HL
elevation unit. I had a sneaking suspicion it might be, for if you discount the storage bin, the Pz IV turret has only the same amount of internal real estate as the Cromwell, and where I'm struggling fit anything in the Cromwell, HL and Taigen have managed to shoehorn in an airsoft gun,as well as the elevation unit that sits directly behind (and partly above) it. Now I know why. If the Cromwell had a storage bin as a bustle (like the Comet can), it would be possible to put an airsoft gun in it...
As for the Bulldog, I didn't know that it was so dimensionally challenged that it required major surgery. Being sawn in half smacks of being a part of a magician's act But then, there are a few magicians on the Forum...

lmcq11 wrote:Hi, Despite the major issues described, I am still grateful for Heng Long to have produced these models at a very affordable price. Just for the PZ IV, I purchased 9 of them over the years. Heng Long basically initiated a new hobby of corrections, enhancements, conversions and after market accessories. It would have been nice if they had been better but I will never pay US $1000 for a Tamiya Jagdpanzer IV. Quality has a cost.

I agree, Louis. There's nothing some people like more than enhancing and tinkering. As with the go-faster exhausts systems, carb upgrades, and fatter wheels and tyres of old, the ''if it ain't broke, don't fix it maxim", doesn't apply. These models are broken in the dimensional sense. This also reminds my of my days tinkering with ubiquitous PC and windows systems. Something went wrong every day, and needed the latest driver, bit of firmware, disk defragmentation and cleanup, virus check, and BIOS upgrade.... just to get the thing chugging into life. Then when it finally booted up, you'd get a message saying you'd performed some sort of
'illegal act', and the computer was shutting down. I never got anything creative done with a PC, but I was forever 'under the hood' trying to fix one. I sort of miss those days, as the Macs I've used for the last ten years have seldom let me down.
In the same way, fixing a Taigen or Heng Long has a similar appeal..but at least they're a spur to creativity, unlike the original budget PCs.

For anyone interested in eliminating most of the flaws found in His version of the Tiger I, Christian Ludwig offers a conversion kit.
Here's what a Tiger looks like after cosmetic surgery to rid it of those ugly errors : http://www.ludwigs-hobby-seite.de/Tiger%20H.html
Apparently, the remodelled big cat will have realistic true scale armour thickness, thanks in part to the work of Birger Streppel..
The kit consists of 180 parts; so it won't be a walk in the park..but it might be a clank in the park

I want to get something clear right off, My older sister was born 18 months after my parents marriage so while I freely admit to being "Sad" I have never had any doubts as to my legitimacy
Luis makes a point that I will reinforce,
Tamiya sells top quality products BUT it was Heng Long that single handedly gave roots to our hobby,
It is called AFFORDABILITY
The Tanks that Tamiya sell are accurate and reasonably well detailed, Whereas Heng Long Tanks leave a lot to be desired BUT unlike Tamiya, Taigen or Torro they are completely honest in their advertising,
They are selling TOYS,
Just how accurate were your toys when you were a child ?
Furthermore with obvious exceptions Heng Long improve their products, witness the vastly better electronics they now have, Does anyone remember the 27Mhz Crystal equipped R/C Tanks? And then the pop on/off tools on the tanks unlike the moulded on tools of Taigen and Torro Tanks,
I am left wondering how many times the Tiger 1 and Panzer 4 Moulds have been replaced and still the same old shortcomings that could and should have been fixed,
Why do the makers persist in getting the spare aerial holders wrong on the Tiger 1 years after the fault was first pointed out and the Pz 4 rear rollers are no joke not forgetting the lack of a slope of the PZ4 engine bay and the mis-positioned Tiger 1 Cupola ,As already explained a valid excuse exists for the wrong size rear stowage box of the PZ4.
I wonder if their is a legal case that could be brought against Taigen and Torro NOT Toymakers Heng Long for misrepresenting a product to a buyer as an accurate facsimile when it is patently obvious that many of their products are no such thing.
Shaun.

jarndice wrote:I want to get something clear right off, My older sister was born 18 months after my parents marriage so while I freely admit to being "Sad" I have never had any doubts as to my legitimacy
Luis makes a point that I will reinforce,
Tamiya sells top quality products BUT it was Heng Long that single handedly gave roots to our hobby,
It is called AFFORDABILITY
The Tanks that Tamiya sell are accurate and reasonably well detailed, Whereas Heng Long Tanks leave a lot to be desired BUT unlike Tamiya, Taigen or Torro they are completely honest in their advertising,
They are selling TOYS,
Just how accurate were your toys when you were a child ?
Furthermore with obvious exceptions Heng Long improve their products, witness the vastly better electronics they now have, Does anyone remember the 27Mhz Crystal equipped R/C Tanks? And then the pop on/off tools on the tanks unlike the moulded on tools of Taigen and Torro Tanks,
I am left wondering how many times the Tiger 1 and Panzer 4 Moulds have been replaced and still the same old shortcomings that could and should have been fixed,
Why do the makers persist in getting the spare aerial holders wrong on the Tiger 1 years after the fault was first pointed out and the Pz 4 rear rollers are no joke not forgetting the lack of a slope of the PZ4 engine bay and the mis-positioned Tiger 1 Cupola ,As already explained a valid excuse exists for the wrong size rear stowage box of the PZ4.
I wonder if their is a legal case that could be brought against Taigen and Torro NOT Toymakers Heng Long for misrepresenting a product to a buyer as an accurate facsimile when it is patently obvious that many of their products are no such thing.
Shaun.

Well, Shaun, I had in mind a sad 'Bustard'...sad because the Bustard went extinct in Britain over 170 years ago- until 2009; when it was reintroduced
Och well.
I appreciate the distinction you draw between Heng Long's 'Toys', and Taigen/Torro's model 'Tanks', and the possibility of litigation under the 'Trade Descriptions Act', perhaps. Come to think of it, what will all those legal vultures do when the PPI money runs out?
I was simply curious to learn from the old hands on the Forum, how wildly models differ from their full size lookalikes (or, notsolookalikes), and which models are the worst offenders.
Seems that the Bulldog just about gets the Golden Raspberry Award for inaccuracy. I exclude the Legendary Pantiger is a separate category of sci-fi contraptions
Being naive at the outset (the time when i was press-ganged into the Hobby), I'd assumed that since Frog, Revell and Airfix model planes had always looked pretty authentic to me, model tanks would be fairly accurate as well. Only later did I begin to learn how we'd been hoodwinked by all but Tamiya. With prices gradually rising to Tamiya levels for some Taigen/Torro models, you'd expect a concomitant level of detail.. In time, maybe.

I agree that the HL M-41 is their worst. Although I purchased a new gun barrel for it and managed to detail the turret very satisfactorily, I was never able to get the hull right. I attempted to fix the driver's periscopes, lower the hull and reduce the width but it is simply too much work. I got discouraged and it is now sitting in pieces in a box. One of my few lifetime modeling failures.