Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Board

This forum relates to the Open Source Tank Control Board (TCB). Please read the sticky and visit the main site to find out all about the board and how to install it.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

What a shame. :'( Thanks for the sobering economic assessment, Rob. What you say makes perfect sense. I guess any electronics enthusiast here, with a good idea, is never likely to get it as far as a 'Dragon's Den'.
I only wish I'd bought one of these before the sudden switch to 'rarity' status. :|
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by dane61 »

The compagny i work for has a SMD production line. We produce small series 100-500 at a time. I asked the guy i charge what it would cost to produce such a board if everything is ready for production. He said 3 hours setup ( 200$) a fixture of some kind ( 300 $ one time investment) and then a 30 % margin on materials used.
Unfortunately we dont take in this kind of work anymore, but he said other compagnys does to use free capacity on the SMD lines.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by wibblywobbly »

If anyone enjoys tinkering, the TCB is based on the Arduino 2560 board, so with a bit of wiring it's possible to load the firmware onto one, hook up the wires, and have a TCB. It won't be neat install with nice plugs etc, but from what I recall it should work. If I had an SBUS tx I would give it a go.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by LukeZ »

Thanks guys for the kind words and it's very gratifying to hear that some have enjoyed this product.

In response to Dane, there certainly are no shortage of manufacturers who will build boards, the issue is one of cost and more precisely, who is willing to bear it. Hobby King did pretty much everything else wrong, but the one crucial benefit they did bring was the willingness to fund the production entirely on their own dime (they kept the profits too, naturally, though I doubt there were much of any at the incredibly low price they sold them for). Even a small run of 100 boards would probably require an upfront expense of approximately $5,000 USD, not to mention whoever is doing the selling must also then take care of shipping, etc... Yes, theoretically the money is recouped through subsequent sales, but that's a lot of cash for a hobbyist to put up and I personally don't think it's a sound investment for me. Nor would I want to be taking trips to the post office every day and sending parcels all over the globe...

As opposed to Benedini who considered it (rightly for him) a loss and an attack when the Chinese cloned his sound card, I on the other hand have actively approached Chinese sellers on AliExpress and elsewhere, and told them, "Here you go, all the schematics and firmware are completely free, please produce this and sell it and keep all the money to yourself!" But so far none have been willing. The hardware on Benedini's sound card is very inexpensive, and they have probably sold many thousands. The hardware on the TCB is not cheap, profit margins would be very low, and even if they keep the price down the demand is still not that great. RC tanks is a pretty small market, and as Wibbly points out, this device is really only attractive to a small subset even of that.

He is right though that you can make a TCB with a stock Arduino Mega, though obviously with reduced functionality. Sergey has a very good writeup on his Russian forum, it is written in Russian but I found it quite readable if you use Google translate:
The Open Panzer TCB from Scratch

Sergey also posted a rather less detailed version in English on the Open Panzer forum:
TCB project from scratch (based on Arduino Mega mini)

Finally there is another more general discussion of using the Mega as a TCB in this other thread over on the OP forum:
Testing TCB Firmware with Stock Arduino Mega

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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by Rad_Schuhart »

Oh I have just seen this... I am very sorry... :(

I have been (And I still am) critic with the OP board.As I said back in the day, IMHO, the board should come with sound and ESCs integrated. Sourcing parts here and there ends expensive and bulky, so the OP project would benefit a lot with all those things sorted. At the beginning also I protested against the use of a SBUS port, but I have seen I was completelly wrong there, because that was one big step in the right direction. Evolution.

What I would do if I were you, Luke, is to finish the sound card, try to reduce the size, put some light outputs, and it will sell like hot bread. Many people from the RC hobby (not only tank related) might be interested in installing lights and sounds in their models in that simply way, specially if the price follows it. As you have seen, look how many thousands and thousands of the benedini clone board are sold... The Benedini is very complicated to use for most users, so that means 99% of users might never ever change the sounds or trigger any light, but the board is still sold.

Once you have that board, and you became rich selling it, what I would do is to make an OP2 board, with at least the sound integrated on it.

But this is just my opinion...



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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by LukeZ »

Ha ha, don't wait around for me to get rich! You'll be a very old man before that ever happens. This was never about making money, though I am happy if I do (I haven't). Mostly I wanted a board that did what I wanted it to do and I wasn't happy with the other options, so I designed this for my own personal use.

If a good deal of money could be made, it would be a motivation to put more time and effort into it and integrating sound and ESCs and continuing the development for the long term. But this is not a money-making enterprise, so I've only taken it as far - and in the direction - that I personally find fulfilling. I'm happy to share it, and make the designs open source, and I'm glad if there are others who also appreciate it, but unless I was independently wealthy to begin with, and just had money and free time to blow (I don't) then there is inevitably going to be a limit to how far it goes.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by Sub »

Hi.
I purchased quite a few of these boards and have found them excellent value for money and in operation, i personally do not mind that the TCB does not have ESC built in, it gives the user the ability to install what esc they like and allows the board and its functionality to be used in anything regardless of max amp the motors draw which would be limited in an integrated ESC plus it also keeps the initial cost down for users, i have lots of esc laying around from my other rc models so gives you flexibility and are easily installed into the TCB.
I think the major thing would be a sound card as the others available on the market are in my view very expensive and certainly out of my price range especially if you are trying to outfit / upgrade around 10 tanks so a compatable sound card would be ideal based on the TCB ethos.
I for one am very grateful to yourself for bringing this project to us which has allowed me to equip some of my tanks with functionality that for many years was well out of my price range and that functionality being superb to boot at such an affordable price.
Thank you !.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by Smaily »

This is very very sad news. I have two of OP TCBs and I was happy that it is available in HK to buy as cheap alternative with many settings. External ESC seems to me more like feature, as You can setup Your tank (or car or anything) with exactly what You need, no limitation here. Only drawback was sound, for which I was ready to wait till will be released (and with small soul still hopink that HK will take design and produce it).

With sound and all new 1/16 cars released, it could be different story with selling board together with sound module. And even for bigger cars, to control servos, ESCs, LEDs.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by Kaczor »

I have issue with Benedini Mini sound card (received yesterday, setup for OP). I have only engine start sound and then engine sounds go to maximum speed sound. Unfortunately I don't have USB cable for Benedini.
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Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa

Post by LukeZ »

I'm sorry to let you know, unless Thomas setup your Mini for use with the TCB before you purchased it (he will do so on request), you must have the USB cable to configure it. The instructions are in the Wiki, but you will need to purchase his cable.
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