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What's in a name?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:51 am
by Awins
Please could anyone tell me why German tanks seem to be named after the 'Big Cats' ....... for example Leopard, Tiger, Panther etc
Being a complete newbie to anything tankwise I simply have lots to learn.
Cheers

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:22 am
by billpe
It goes further than cats. SPGs tended to be named after insects: Cricket, Hornet, Bumble Bee, Wasp etc. It gets complicated then because the Hornet got renamed to Rhino and many never got names at all, other than nicknames like the Stubborn Emil.

I suspect the cats thing originated from there mentality these tanks being proactive hunting tanks rather than supporting tanks. However there was also a Lynx light tank and of cause the Puma which was a wheeled vehicle.

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:49 pm
by 971wright
Hi Don't forget the Elephant, or the really big stuff the mouse and ratt. I cant think of one that isn't named after an animal .
Americans tend to use Generals to name their tanks .
British tend to have them beginning with a C Churchill Cromwell Comet ECT

regards pete

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:24 am
by Merlin707
Going over some of the papers I did for my history degree, this topic came up a few times.

From what research I put together, it was shown to indicate the names of tanks the Germans gave was to inspire fear in there adversaries. This was to be done mainly over radio etc.
The only tank that did not fit this profile was the German Maus and I was never able to find a definitive source for this. Probably because it didn't make it to production.

On the other hand people say that the American names there tanks after Generals is in fact incorrect, the names such as the Sherman, Chaffee and Patton were actually nicknames rather than the official name of the tank. This is proven if one studies military tank service manuals etc that only indicate the model number such as M4 for the Sherman. This is found to be the case when looking in the TM 9-2300 Manuals for the tanks and the Standard Ordnance Item Catalogue.

It is only when you look into the term Tank itself that it becomes interesting, the British people before the outset of war were dead against armoured vehicles so it became customary to name these vehicles other than tank, hence the Churchill and Comet etc.

This lack of the use of the word tank actually worked in the favour of the British during the early parts of the war when Germans were intercepting radio traffic and some documentation shows the Germans actually believed the British were shipping liquid tanks rather than its actual meaning of armoured vehicle.

Just my two penneth :)

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:01 am
by MichaelC
I always thought that maybe this whole cat thing started with VK3001(P) which was nicknamed by Porsche as Leopard. Up until that point, Pz I - IV has been just that, no big cat names. I think that's the earliest big cat name used.

MichaelC.

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:22 am
by jarndice
Merlin hi, I think you have exposed a rich seam, the British have always given an official name to every military aircraft on its introduction into service and yet the American armed forces usually do not name their military aircraft with the exception of the American Army Air Corp( who give their aircraft types American Indian tribal names) and if they do it is either later after the name given by the maker or other sources has become generic or even a quite different name from that which has passed into common usage, everyone in the service and people like me who for a period served on the flight line knew the officially named "Thunderbolt" as the "THUD" and given its ability to exceed the speed of sound and deliver very noisy explosive ordnance it was a far more apt title, there are of course a number of names that flight line and flight crew have given certain types that are not overly well known to the public, in the Army Air Corps the Bell 47 helicopter was known to us as the "Clockwork mouse" the Argosy obviously with such a prominent radome was "The Flying Tit" the B52 is called as everyone knows "the BUFF" the final "F" is of course never "FELLOW" that is for visiting pressman the "C130Hercules" is "Fat Albert".the Bell Iroquios is an example of the flight line crew and the many service personnel who flew in them giving it a name (taken from its nomenclature)quite different "HUEY" I should add that an aircraft serving in more than one of the 4 US military arms will get a different designation whichever service commissions it,but a very little research could produce some very interesting stories I am quite sure. :thumbup: shaun

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:08 am
by Merlin707
Hi Shaun I know exactly where you're coming from on this perspective as I am still serving.

After working alongside NATO forces who all at some point have used the same aircraft, it is brilliant to see the varied nicknames and local in house names for aircraft and ground vehicles.

Some ground crew still have personalised names for the aircraft they are responsible for and I know some of them chalk this name into the undercarriage well to add that personal touch.

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:08 am
by Merlin707
Hi Shaun I know exactly where you're coming from on this perspective as I am still serving.

After working alongside NATO forces who all at some point have used the same aircraft, it is brilliant to see the varied nicknames and local in house names for aircraft and ground vehicles.

Some ground crew still have personalised names for the aircraft they are responsible for and I know some of them chalk this name into the undercarriage well to add that personal touch.

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:37 am
by PainlessWolf
Good Evening,
To add to Merlin's excellent summation, During WWI when tanks had been developed as a secret weapon in Britain, they were shipped by rail to test and then eventually, port destinations to be delivered to Europe. They were disguised as 'tank'cars during transport by rail and shipment by sea and the name tank came into use as Soldiers were exposed to the new weapons system and asked what they were called. Also, many of the American tanks during WWII owe their names to the British who named them after Generals from the American Civil War. Americans picked up on this as well as I think the 'Pershing' was a U.S. given moniker to the M26. As for "Hitler's Zoo", I'd be interested in hearing how all of those war machines came to be named such. Was it Porsche's doing? The Pz I, II, III and IV and the Stug were just that, military designations.
regards,
Painless

Re: What's in a name?

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:01 am
by jarndice
Hallo Painless, perhaps you can answer a question often asked but I have never found the answer, just as the campaign in North Africa was kicking off the United States began supplying what was called by the British Army the "LEE" but in American Military service was called the "GRANT" was it to placate the political sensitivities in Washington,Whatever, it came at the right time although replaced by the ubiquitous "SHERMAN, the "LEE"/"GRANT" went on to do sterling service in Burma where it really was the right Tank at the right time. the Japanese having nothing to touch it. :thumbup: shaun