JMO... M4 Sherman

[ALPHA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrlmaRvzsvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h64KnWD15aQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4YKmr5kNw4
After building two Shermans... and after many days perhaps weeks of researching the vehicle thought I might enter my opinion on the tank up for discussion
Historically... the Sherman was touted as a "Death Trap" because of it's inadequate armor...well this might be true... but ...I don't believe the tank was made in obsolescence have come to believe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns6l7sCoWX4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLG2HPanmu8
I believe the tank served it's purpose...and also believe Gen Patton was correct in thinking if you produce enough of them ...they will win the war
Sure it's armor didn't meet the standard that the Germans had set ...with the constant improvements in Tankery they had ...This IMO was the greatest weakness in German production...they thought power meant victory... Perhaps they may have realized in hind sight.. or perhaps never did... but that constant R&D added with constant re tooling ... is what killed their efforts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUAG-UNYnek
I feel it was because of the diversity of the Sherman... and how parts could be easily accessed ...installed... adapted.. and manufactured by numerous makers...made it the winning design that kept it running what seems like forever
It is also my conclusion that this "focus" on One Tank... instead of constant re tooling... is what makes the Tank so productive as well as Iconic... it isn't the most powerful... but it is ...IMO... one of the tank designs that changed the face of armor production
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zdDfJ4GZ2Y
If the Sherman was designed in obsolescence ...Why were they adapted into the modern world of Tankery...when other WW2 tanks have faded into history... or sit in collections and museums

PANZER VOR BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....................

ALPHA

PS. There was a video I saw... where there was a British Chap who shared my enthusiasm for the Sherman... I couldn't locate it again... if I do I will post it

[hawkeye3guns]

Hi Alpha I totally agree with your sentiments having done a bit of research myself and also as an armouror. The sherman lent itself to numerous in field and production modifications that as you said, it just indured where other tanks was forgive the pun "one hit wonders" ( now thats put me in the bad books) LoL.
I just a big kid at heart and enjoy modelling and playing to care.
Keep on tanking Alpha. ps. I brought the Girls and Punzer videos the other day and me and my sons are loving the tongue in cheek fun of them.
regards Denzil

[Jnewboy]

Numbers really matter in war and I agree with you that numbers did not hurt the Sherman. The Russians had the same opinion of how to fight a war and did it better than anyone. The T-34 was a better tank and they made more of them. As for the Germans we must remember that after Barbarossa mass production became much harder for the Germans as trains full of nickel and ore from Russia stopped and a year or so latter the air raids started. The Germans also knew they did not have the manpower to man tens of thousands of tanks, they thought that if a superior tank was able to be made it would counterbalance the Allied numerical superiority. That tank was found in the Panther however by the time they had all the bugs worked out of it most of their veteran tankers were dead. Nothing can replace experience and when the men in the tanks were all rookies with little training they had no chance at fighting the numbers the Allies had. This can be debated over and over but it was really over before it started due to poor German intelligence. Hitler alluded to that, once saying "If I had known they (Russia) had so many tanks I would have never invaded".

[ALPHA]

Hi Alpha I totally agree with your sentiments having done a bit of research myself and also as an armouror. The sherman lent itself to numerous in field and production modifications that as you said, it just indured where other tanks was forgive the pun "one hit wonders" ( now thats put me in the bad books) LoL.
I just a big kid at heart and enjoy modelling and playing to care.
Keep on tanking Alpha. ps. I brought the Girls and Punzer videos the other day and me and my sons are loving the tongue in cheek fun of them.
regards Denzil

Greetings Hawkeye ....Yes indeed the Sherman was a tank built from necessity ... not desire like the Germans... They wanted the biggest baddest guns on the field... they did get them.. but at what cost... depleted resources ...Heavy lumbering tanks that would be abandoned if they broke down...To me the story could have been different if the Germans had just focused on one prime tank...

Glad you and yours are enjoying the Anime... what caught me at first was the outstanding CG renderings of the tanks... later ..I enjoyed the story as well... keep an eye out...there are a lot of historical references through out the show

Have a good one Hawkeye

UND PANZER VOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALPHA

[ALPHA]

Numbers really matter in war and I agree with you that numbers did not hurt the Sherman. The Russians had the same opinion of how to fight a war and did it better than anyone. The T-34 was a better tank and they made more of them. As for the Germans we must remember that after Barbarossa mass production became much harder for the Germans as trains full of nickel and ore from Russia stopped and a year or so latter the air raids started. The Germans also knew they did not have the manpower to man tens of thousands of tanks, they thought that if a superior tank was able to be made it would counterbalance the Allied numerical superiority. That tank was found in the Panther however by the time they had all the bugs worked out of it most of their veteran tankers were dead. Nothing can replace experience and when the men in the tanks were all rookies with little training they had no chance at fighting the numbers the Allies had. This can be debated over and over but it was really over before it started due to poor German intelligence. Hitler alluded to that, once saying "If I had known they (Russia) had so many tanks I would have never invaded".

Way I read and Heard... initially the Soviets weren't aware of how to use their Equipment ..I only wish I could locate that one video...the guy had stats... the though it was believed the Sherman was one disaster of a tank... the T34s actually had a higher loss rate

Did you see the videos I posted of the two collectors restoring Panthers... the tank is a disaster waiting to happen... prone to breakage...some due to sabotage from forced labor...some of the mechanics who were restoring the tanks also said the way the mechanical systems were designed and placed...if something broke..there was nothing the crew could do..pretty enlightening stuff

Have a good one Jnewboy

UND PANZER VOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALPHA

[Jnewboy]

The Panther did have its issues but by mid 1944 they were worked out but were the crew competent? Who knows, I read once that a crew got out and abandoned their new Panther because they heard airplanes over head... The high loss rates of the T-34 vs the Sherman can be explained simply by the landscape and who they were fighting. By the time Normandy happened most of the best German armor units had been really weakened (Kursk) so France was not heavily defended and the good units that were there like Das Reich and Lehr divisions suffered allot of damage from Allied airpower. The landscape is full of obstacles like buildings and hedgerows which helped the Sherman not get picked off from 2,000 meters or more which was the case for the T-34 on the flat step of Russia. On of the only things that saved the T-34 was its low silhouette. If the tanks had been reversed and the Soviets only had thousands of Shermans and no T-34s they may have lost or at least lost thousands of more tanks. The Sherman’s high silhouette would have been easy to hit on that open landscape and they would of had to get up very close to take out a Tiger. Alpha you would like "The last Citadel" by David Robbins. Its a fantastic read about the Battle of Kursk and the what life was like inside a Tiger I and a T-34.