SAUNDERS D DAY INVADER ...M4a3 SHERMAN

[PainlessWolf]

Good Morning, Alpha,
It's good to hear from you and that you have an update. ;o) See you and it soon, my friend.
warm regards,
Painless

[cannedheat]

hi old chap
I have modelled my mantlet on your creation not as accurate but it will do , I have a idea soon I will be 21 so as a present you can send me your metal Sherman wot wot ....... your tank oops sorry my tank is looking good ,

[ALPHA]

Good Morning, Alpha,
It's good to hear from you and that you have an update. ;o) See you and it soon, my friend.
warm regards,
Painless

Sorry for the lack of Photos Painless.... this part was rather intense lol.... It's the part of any build that gives me the most headaches.... the internals...

I had to make sure the gun elevation unit was properly mounted... once I did that... had to make sure it functioned... but to do that... I had to make sure the electrics were good... thus the problem with the lights.... removed them a second time to make sure none of the LEDs had burned from the first attempt... everything was good....so I tested the elevation.. found it was off a little ...corrected that... cleaned up the wires in the turret and proceeded on

Double insulated the head and tail lights using the plastic coating off an old clothes hanger and some heat shrink...re drilled the holes I had previously done as they were too small for the light assemblies ...put them in ...soldered them up.. long story short... she is now a runner .. full function... so now I can just continue with the exterior details and some of the lock down assemblies

Have a great day Painless

ALPHA

[ALPHA]

hi old chap
I have modelled my mantlet on your creation not as accurate but it will do , I have a idea soon I will be 21 so as a present you can send me your metal Sherman wot wot ....... your tank oops sorry my tank is looking good ,

I saw your mantlet Canned.. It looks fine... after I saw it thought I should have went that route instead of the way I did .... moving the gun back that eighth of an inch cause a lot of rearranging in that tiny turret after three days... yup that's how long it took... sorted everything out in there...to a certain degree lol...

21??? you're joking right ...but yes our tank is looking better every day...not up to your meticulous snuff ... but she's a runner

Have a good one Canned... I'm keeping an eye on that flamer

ALPHA

[ALPHA]

Ok ... got a really lame ..perhaps stupid question... I didn't like the positioning of my mantlet barrel flaps ....so I re did them last night ...Here's the stupid question... as it came up while I was doing them over.

What are those flaps for...?



They don't seem to serve any purpose...and on the earlier model are not there at all... even in the later model... they are non existent



the mantlet does "look" a lot better with them there... but it can't be the reason those flaps were put there
aesthetics ? it just can't be

ALPHA

[PainlessWolf]

Alpha,
Bullet Splash Shields, I suspect. ;o) Wiser Tankers will speak up, no doubt.
warm regards,
Painless

[ALPHA]

Alpha,
Bullet Splash Shields, I suspect. ;o) Wiser Tankers will speak up, no doubt.
warm regards,
Painless

That would be the logical assumption wouldn't it eh Painless ...but I really feel nobody really knows what they are for... even the great info sites don't have any reference to them.....I was also thinking they were like a type of handle ... for when the crew cleaned the barrel... but couldn't find any documentation to that hypotheses ....they do give the manlet a much better "look"....but other than that... I just don't know lol...

ALPHA

[HERMAN BIX]

Perhaps a well meaning but poorly tested idea of protection from mantlet impact spall that could foul the main guns recoil or similar. By pporly tested I mean that most mantlet impacts on a Sherman resulted in penetration rather than impact deflection & spalling .
Could have been a method of machine processing post casting as well. Something to hold the raw casting on or with while the back of it was machined to fit the gun ,and processing the MG penetrations.
I feel we might never know.

[ALPHA]

Perhaps a well meaning but poorly tested idea of protection from mantlet impact spall that could foul the main guns recoil or similar. By pporly tested I mean that most mantlet impacts on a Sherman resulted in penetration rather than impact deflection & spalling .
Could have been a method of machine processing post casting as well. Something to hold the raw casting on or with while the back of it was machined to fit the gun ,and processing the MG penetrations.
I feel we might never know.

I think I will owe the board and apology soon... as I really had the impression someone out there would know what the purpose of those flaps were.... it really is an enigma ... I guess the only people who would really know are the ones who designed and manufactured the "improved" mantlet



they sure look good... even as functional handles and a stepping area to get up to the turret...but there is nothing written or that I could find anyway .. saying it was or wasn't just an aesthetic feature lol

Nice to meet you Herman Bix

ALPHA

[sassgrunt]

I don't have a complete answer for you but I do have a partial one. I went to Hunnicutt's book on the Sherman, which is pretty much the reference for things like this. For starters, I found out that I have been calling things by the wrong name, all this time. The main gun shield (what I always thought was called the rotor shield), served as the front plate of the turret. A rotor shield (what I always thought was called the mantlet) was added to prevent small arms fire from scarring the rotor surface and locking it against the main gun shield.

As far as the 'flaps' go, the original rotor shield for the M34 mount (that's the skinny one in your picture), did not have the flaps. It doesn't say when they were added or for what purpose, but they were there on later production M34 mounts. Later, they transitioned to the wider M34A1 mount, (which was built to better protect the direct sight telescope and the machine gun), the 'flaps' were always seen on this mount.

I suspect, as others have said, that they were either a guard, or a counterweight for the gun. They weren't used on the later T80 mount (that's the one on the Mato M4A1) or on the 105mm Sherman. The British conversion to the Firefly used an entirely new gun shield and rotor shield, and this mount did not have the 'flaps' either.

So it looks like you are right to have them on your build. (But now, I need to go look at my M4A2 build and see if they should be there or not. It's always something....) -Mike