airbrush or brush?

[ausf]

Regarding airbrushes and quality, they are not the same.

I bought my first Iwata in 1986. I used it a few days ago. That's 30 years of flawless service, still all original, including the needle and it's still my main brush. The only thing that had changed over 30 years was the price, I paid well over $300 back then and the HP-BC2 can be found for a $100 less these days.

I bought two more Iwatas in the past few years, one large spray, one detail gravity, both are exactly the same in terms of design and quality. How many products remain unchanged in 30 years?

An airbrush is a tool and like all tools, you can buy one good one or many cheap ones.

The makings here of a lively discussion, but any airbrush system is as weak as the weakest link I'd guess. No matter how precise and accurately assembled an airbrush is, if the compressor is asthmatic the results will be bad.
What compressor would you be looking for if your current one broke, I wonder? Maybe it would be the same, and if so..what is it, and can the model still be obtained?
This might be illuminating for us apprentice daubers. A useful insight..

That's funny you mention that, I've been using the same Badger $100 compressor from the 1986 purchase until a few months ago. It started clanking, so I looked into a replacement. I didn't want to spend too much, so I bought a Paasche for $100. Instead of the heavy cast, it was much smaller. It delivers the required pressure, but cycles too much, so I had to hook it up to a pressure tank.

I pulled the old compressor apart and it looks like I only need to change out the crank bearing and then it'll go back into service.

In terms of brush quality between brands, yeah, sure there's great options and personal preferences, but the main thing is to use a quality brush and as mentioned, if possible try them out first.

A crappy brush is hard to use, so generally people buy a lousy one to try out, hate it, then never AB again saying it's not for them. Same with figure painting. New to the hobby, most don't want to spend $20 on a red Kolinsky sable brush, they use a cheap fabric store $1 one and then complain that their face looks like crap. It has to do with brush load and paint delivery.

Same with so many different things. I've been playing bass since the mid 70s. I walk into a music store and pick up an entry level instrument these days that most kids get and I can't get a good note out of it, so how the heck is someone who never played going to?

Same idea, if I can't get a $30 airbrush to work, how is someone who never tried one going to?

It's not what the brush looks like or how many parts it comes with that matters. One thing matters: how true the needle is and how it sits in the nozzle. That's the entire function on an airbrush, to pass air over that needle, theough that opening in a controlled way so paint gets atomized in a predictable pattern. Precision parts cost money and have to be assembled by someone competent, whether it's Paasche, Iwata, Badger, etc.

There are great deals out there, just not knock offs.

You guys know how Tamiya sells the FO cheaper in the home islands as well as including the Attack Tx/Rx and battery? Same goes for Iwata. I bought my latest from Japan for $150 shipped. It came in a cardboard box with Japanese instructions. The exact same brush is available in the States, but it comes with English instructions, in a metal case and has an extra moisture trap. For $400.

[43rdRecceReg]

Regarding airbrushes and quality, they are not the same.

I bought my first Iwata in 1986. I used it a few days ago. That's 30 years of flawless service, still all original, including the needle and it's still my main brush. The only thing that had changed over 30 years was the price, I paid well over $300 back then and the HP-BC2 can be found for a $100 less these days.

I bought two more Iwatas in the past few years, one large spray, one detail gravity, both are exactly the same in terms of design and quality. How many products remain unchanged in 30 years?

An airbrush is a tool and like all tools, you can buy one good one or many cheap ones.

The makings here of a lively discussion, but any airbrush system is as weak as the weakest link I'd guess. No matter how precise and accurately assembled an airbrush is, if the compressor is asthmatic the results will be bad.
What compressor would you be looking for if your current one broke, I wonder? Maybe it would be the same, and if so..what is it, and can the model still be obtained?
This might be illuminating for us apprentice daubers. A useful insight..

That's funny you mention that, I've been using the same Badger $100 compressor from the 1986 purchase until a few months ago. It started clanking, so I looked into a replacement. I didn't want to spend too much, so I bought a Paasche for $100. Instead of the heavy cast, it was much smaller. It delivers the required pressure, but cycles too much, so I had to hook it up to a pressure tank.

I pulled the old compressor apart and it looks like I only need to change out the crank bearing and then it'll go back into service.

In terms of brush quality between brands, yeah, sure there's great options and personal preferences, but the main thing is to use a quality brush and as mentioned, if possible try them out first.

A crappy brush is hard to use, so generally people buy a lousy one to try out, hate it, then never AB again saying it's not for them. Same with figure painting. New to the hobby, most don't want to spend $20 on a red Kolinsky sable brush, they use a cheap fabric store $1 one and then complain that their face looks like crap. It has to do with brush load and paint delivery.

Same with so many different things. I've been playing bass since the mid 70s. I walk into a music store and pick up an entry level instrument these days that most kids get and I can't get a good note out of it, so how the heck is someone who never played going to?

Same idea, if I can't get a $30 airbrush to work, how is someone who never tried one going to?

It's not what the brush looks like or how many parts it comes with that matters. One thing matters: how true the needle is and how it sits in the nozzle. That's the entire function on an airbrush, to pass air over that needle, theough that opening in a controlled way so paint gets atomized in a predictable pattern. Precision parts cost money and have to be assembled by someone competent, whether it's Paasche, Iwata, Badger, etc.

There are great deals out there, just not knock offs.

You guys know how Tamiya sells the FO cheaper in the home islands as well as including the Attack Tx/Rx and battery? Same goes for Iwata. I bought my latest from Japan for $150 shipped. It came in a cardboard box with Japanese instructions. The exact same brush is available in the States, but it comes with English instructions, in a metal case and has an extra moisture trap. For $400.

I had a feeling you'd have had a long term association with dependable equipment. Getting replacements for original tools/ valued equipment (including guitars!) can be very frustrating in this throwaway age of guaranteed obsolescence, and with our feet glued to the upgrade escalator. What was once made in the UK, or the US ..or even Japan, will have been long 'outsourced' to China or some other global sweatshop. Getting spares for long term assets is equally frustrating. But hey, thanks to you and Alpha for the benefit of your experience. Incidentally, I've been playing the bass since the 1960s (Hofner violin bass, Fender jazz, Ibanez short scale), as well as folk/blues and folk/rock on six and twelve string guitars (Ovation, Fender strat etc..). I have more guitars than tanks, and I'd worry if that ratio ever changed.. One major addiction (music and writing it )was as much as I could handle..without adding this lunacy too..
Bucket list items still include a Rickenbacker 12-string, to play those old Beatles and Byrds licks, and a Rickenbacker 4001 for songs like 'Penny Lane' and 'Come together'. They would always precede a Tamiya tank in the list...but the Tamiya lure is getting stronger

[ausf]

I had a feeling you'd have had a long term association with dependable equipment. Getting replacements for original tools/ valued equipment (including guitars!) can be very frustrating in this throwaway age of guaranteed obsolescence, and with our feet glued to the upgrade escalator. What was once made in the UK, or the US ..or even Japan, will have been long 'outsourced' to China or some other global sweatshop. Getting spares for long term assets is equally frustrating. But hey, thanks to you and Alpha for the benefit of your experience. Incidentally, I've been playing the bass since the 1960s (Hofner violin bass, Fender jazz, Ibanez short scale), as well as folk/blues and folk/rock on six and twelve string guitars (Ovation, Fender strat etc..). I have more guitars than tanks, and I'd worry if that ratio ever changed.. One major addiction (music and writing it )was as much as I could handle..without adding this lunacy too..
Bucket list items still include a Rickenbacker 12-string, to play those old Beatles and Byrds licks, and a Rickenbacker 4001 for songs like 'Penny Lane' and 'Come together'. They would always precede a Tamiya tank in the list...but the Tamiya lure is getting stronger

Nice lineup. My first real bass was a Rick 4001 bought new on 48th Street in '78 (when 48th was cool). It was $350, I remember because half was a Xmas present, the other half I ponied up. I loved that bass, but it's long gone now. It's funny, Ricks were kind of an everyman bass back then, used mostly for punk and metal, all else went with a P or Jazz. Now you can't find a Rick for under $2500 and I hear they're not that great to boot. I used to stereo split the Rick O Sound through two heads when I played out back then, happy times playing Sabbath, Zeppelin, Priest.

I sold off my best fretless, an original Japanese made Ibanez to get the Tamiya Tiger I when it first came out. I rarely played that bass, but got many miles out of that Tiger since then, still do.

Now I only Ernie Ball Stingrays, through GK (I play mostly RHCP covers) and an old German upright for everything else.

[43rdRecceReg]

I had a feeling you'd have had a long term association with dependable equipment. Getting replacements for original tools/ valued equipment (including guitars!) can be very frustrating in this throwaway age of guaranteed obsolescence, and with our feet glued to the upgrade escalator. What was once made in the UK, or the US ..or even Japan, will have been long 'outsourced' to China or some other global sweatshop. Getting spares for long term assets is equally frustrating. But hey, thanks to you and Alpha for the benefit of your experience. Incidentally, I've been playing the bass since the 1960s (Hofner violin bass, Fender jazz, Ibanez short scale), as well as folk/blues and folk/rock on six and twelve string guitars (Ovation, Fender strat etc..). I have more guitars than tanks, and I'd worry if that ratio ever changed.. One major addiction (music and writing it )was as much as I could handle..without adding this lunacy too..
Bucket list items still include a Rickenbacker 12-string, to play those old Beatles and Byrds licks, and a Rickenbacker 4001 for songs like 'Penny Lane' and 'Come together'. They would always precede a Tamiya tank in the list...but the Tamiya lure is getting stronger

Nice lineup. My first real bass was a Rick 4001 bought new on 48th Street in '78 (when 48th was cool). It was $350, I remember because half was a Xmas present, the other half I ponied up. I loved that bass, but it's long gone now. It's funny, Ricks were kind of an everyman bass back then, used mostly for punk and metal, all else went with a P or Jazz. Now you can't find a Rick for under $2500 and I hear they're not that great to boot. I used to stereo split the Rick O Sound through two heads when I played out back then, happy times playing Sabbath, Zeppelin, Priest.

I sold off my best fretless, an original Japanese made Ibanez to get the Tamiya Tiger I when it first came out. I rarely played that bass, but got many miles out of that Tiger since then, still do.

Now I only Ernie Ball Stingrays, through GK (I play mostly RHCP covers) and an old German upright for everything else.

Interesting that the Rick was once such an affordable bass and.. now (UK £1,500-2,000 depending on spec) it has to be a 'bucket list item'. That also applies to the Rick 360/12- really expensive. Worse still, there are quite a few counterfeit copies on the market. I'd love a sixties original, though, to simulate some of those beautifully effective-but simple- George Harrison licks.
RHCP..? Yeah, Flea is a pretty impressive, and frenetic bassist. Currently I like Pino Palladino who was lately with John Mayer, but produced all those great, melodious fretless licks on albums by Joan Armatrading, Paul Young, Gary Numan and many others in the 1980s. A great and in demand session bassist too.
I'm not much into metal, but saw the beginnings with hard rock, and prog rock at festivals and other venues in the late 60s and early seventies. Saw: Hendrix, Zeppelin (Bath festival), Sabbath (1970 lineup in Brighton, Eng.), Pink Floyd,
Jethro Tull, Johnny Winter, Frank Zappa, Deep Purple, Genesis,Grateful Dead and many others...Can't believe it was so long ago..until i consult the mirror, and my joints (anatomical ones) first thing in the morning
Still would never trade a bass for a Tamiya and, though i'd quite like a double bass (played one at school)...I'm running out of room..especially with all the tanks and bits.

[ausf]

Ricks were moderate entry level (but then an American P wasn't much more expensive back then) at under $400. They were a love hate type deal. The neck is thin and straight through so there's no replacing if it goes south on you. Dual truss rods also made it a bear to keep straight. Chris Squire was the only big name who used them until Geddy came along.

I hear ya, metal is boring for a bassist, that's why I stick to playing Flea now. His style is so percussive, it's a workout. There's a lot going on there, it's much harder than it sounds at first. He lives on ghost notes and the timing is very odd. It's good compromise of music that is popular, yet interesting enough to play. After my metal days, I went into fusion and progressive and it was a hell of a lot of work to play stuff that almost no one but musicians wanted to hear.

[ALPHA]

By the way Sarge...there are a few members who received knock off Airbrushes as Gifts...That would be Arnie and Edpanzer...both are doing exceedingly well with them...Another couple I would mention is Jackalope and Cannedheat

Basically saying ...you don't need to spend a lot to do a great job...as with anything...all you need is a tool and practice


...and a tank lol

ALPHA

[43rdRecceReg]

By the way Sarge...there are a few members who received knock off Airbrushes as Gifts...That would be Arnie and Edpanzer...both are doing exceedingly well with them...Another couple I would mention is Jackalope and Cannedheat

Basically saying ...you don't need to spend a lot to do a great job...as with anything...all you need is a tool and practice


...and a tank lol

ALPHA

And a fine sponge on a stick...don't forget... (yes, I know the Romans used one for hygiene purposes..but this is different) I've found It's great for getting fine textured effects (casting defects) on a tank, after an initial daub with a soft sable brush...that is.. and it's also useful for dealing with an occasional expletive- generating
spill from the gravity fed cup...yep, I should put the screw-top on, but sometimes a frenzy to get a result overrides caution...for me, anyway .
Of course, a decent airbrush is often an essential tool for a guitar customiser ...all you need is a transferrable skill (tanks to twangs) and...a guitar although, personally I like my guitars to look the way they were intended, and that also applies to some of the custom airbrushed tanks I've acquired... (rctank.de always supply beautifully finished examples)

[ALPHA]

And a fine sponge on a stick...don't forget... (yes, I know the Romans used one for hygiene purposes..but this is different) I've found It's great for getting fine textured effects (casting defects) on a tank, after an initial daub with a soft sable brush...that is.. and it's also useful for dealing with an occasional expletive- generating

Yup I agree Corporal 43 ...sponges work too...So do Qtips ...Great for minor touch ups

spill from the gravity fed cup...yep, I should put the screw-top on, but sometimes a frenzy to get a result overrides caution...for me, anyway .
Of course, a decent airbrush is often an essential tool for a guitar customiser ...all you need is a transferrable skill (tanks to twangs) and...a guitar although, personally I like my guitars to look the way they were intended, and that also applies to some of the custom airbrushed tanks I've acquired... (rctank.de always supply beautifully finished examples)

Well the top on a Gravity fed is probably another reason I don't use one ....So far I like the convenience of fast change out and flushes with a Siphon feed gun...another reason is the rare chance of trigger finger in paint ordeal
Wouldn't mind trying one of those that look like auto spray guns with the trigger underneath..beh...but that's for another time
Yup agree on the effects on a guitar....hard to beat the kind of graphics that can be laid down on one with an airbrush...that of ghostly images ..webbings and such...You should take a gander at some of Palepainter's work ...He posted a link on one of his threads...maybe in the intro section


ALPHA

[johnbudda]

with out a doubt air brushing in any form off modeling can make a difference to the finish of that model