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Mr STHV, my apologies, I stand corrected, I've just looked deeper into this, and it appears you are correct, it appears they didn't only make 250 HL 210's as my Tiger book says, they only made 250 HL 210-P45's for the Tiger 1, and a further 250 HL 210-P30's for the Panther.

Looks like my mistake was in the P designation

I'll get me coat. . . .

Son of a gun-ner wrote:Well, as the factory only built 250 HL 210's, and they put the majority in the Tiger 1's which was an earlier tank than the Panther, they may have put the odd one or two in a couple of Panthers for testing till they got the better engines from the production line.
What you've shown is the only reference to the later 250 Panthers having those earlier engines instead of the earlier Tiger 1's.

Where did you find that production number? Every scource I have is unanimous that the first 250 Panther Ausf D's had the 210 installed and this all seems to match up to the images of Ausf D's i have found
https://youtu.be/9rUocSj2dHc?t=177
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/b4/1b ... fc791f.jpg (Split peg like handles mean HL 210 is inside)
https://i.gyazo.com/048995dbfa343fc3c59 ... 562403.png

As a side note (and because I'm a professional engine nerd), what is the difference between the P45 and the P30? Different calibration of the carbs? Different external part fitment?

Tiger6 wrote:As a side note (and because I'm a professional engine nerd), what is the difference between the P45 and the P30? Different calibration of the carbs? Different external part fitment?

Now you're asking something lol. I think it may be the carbs which annoys me, because my Tiger book led me to believe there was only 250 engines made, when in fact it was only 250 with a particular carb

Son of a gun-ner wrote:Mr STHV, my apologies, I stand corrected, I've just looked deeper into this, and it appears you are correct, it appears they didn't only make 250 HL 210's as my Tiger book says, they only made 250 HL 210-P45's for the Tiger 1, and a further 250 HL 210-P30's for the Panther.

Looks like my mistake was in the P designation

I'll get me coat. . . .

It's fine, due to my current build and first project I have become a little obsessed with the Ausf D variant to the extent that I can identify the month when one was built from the minor changes introduced throughout production
Ausf D is also overlooked quite a lot as for all intents and purpoeses it was a bit crap compared to later versions (6 degrees a second turret traverse etc) so there is very little infomation on it as and even less infomation on the early variants

STHV wrote:It's fine, due to my current build and first project I have become a little obsessed with the Ausf D variant to the extent that I can identify the month when one was built from the minor changes introduced throughout production

I hear you, I've gotten the same way with the various different factory paint schemes on the G model

With all these facts and figures regarding Panthers, maybe l could ask - the Panther F. When did it see battle? I have read it was in Berlin for the final bash but even that was disputed by someone who claimed it was a G with a prototype F turret. Does anyone here know or can refer me to some reliable text?

As a general rule Jentz and Doyle's work on the history of German WW2 vehicles is as authorative as it gets, if they didn't/haven't found any evidence for a claim like that, then I'd be tempted to throw the bullshit flag on stories like that.

Many of their PanzerTracts series are available from the Panzer Wrecks website I linked to earlier, I can highly recommend them, tho you might turn into a rivetcounter as a result of reading them

Tiger6 wrote:As a general rule Jentz and Doyle's work on the history of German WW2 vehicles is as authorative as it gets, if they didn't/haven't found any evidence for a claim like that, then I'd be tempted to throw the bullshit flag on stories like that.

Many of their PanzerTracts series are available from the Panzer Wrecks website I linked to earlier, I can highly recommend them, tho you might turn into a rivetcounter as a result of reading them

I am using panzer tracts for all of my German builds! however they do miss a few components and details like when the last 210 Ausf D was built, when the bevelled drivers vision port cover was swapped for the flat one and the mechanisms for the vison port and mg letterbox (had to grab the Panther project hull and drivetrain for that one)
Panther and its variants by Walter J Spielberger is another good one, it has breakdowns of lots of systems like the fuel supply, gearboxes and engines however its section on the Panther II was incorrect which was addressed in a later book

Good call, Spielberger is another good reference that Jentz and Doyle highly respect.